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The Business of Fashion Podcast

Es Devlin and Ekow Eshun on Belonging, Otherness and Identity

The Business of Fashion Podcast

The Business of Fashion

Fashion & Beauty, Business, Arts

4.6770 Ratings

🗓️ 14 February 2025

⏱️ 23 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In an intimate conversation at BoF VOICES 2024, world-renowned stage designer Es Devlin and writer and cultural curator Ekow Eshun discuss the transformative potential of human connection. 


Emerging from a desire to confront her own biases, Devlin’s “Congregation” project invited 50 Londoners from immigrant backgrounds to be drawn and displayed inside St. Mary le Strand church in London. Eshun’s new book, “The Strangers”, likewise interrogates racial identity and belonging through the stories of five Black men spanning centuries and continents.


“I'm not the same person at all,” says Devlin, reflecting on her experience. “I'm a bit more raw as a consequence of writing [The Strangers] because … you have to open yourself up to pain and fraughtness,” adds Eshun. 


Devlin and Eshun investigate how “otherness” shapes our sense of belonging and argue that true understanding requires a radical willingness to open ourselves to one another — and, in the process, rediscover parts of ourselves.


Key Insights: 


  • For Devlin, bridging cultural divides begins with a fearless self-examination: “I wanted to encounter my own racism, my own bias, my own separation.” Considering how certain immigrants are welcomed while others are rejected, she admits, “If it's at work in my community, it must be at work in me. It must be work in my very person. Whether I think it is or not, I must encounter it.”


  • Creative inquiry can be a path to self-discovery. “Almost any creative exercise in the end becomes about one trying to meet what’s inside you," Eshun explains. "It's easy enough to say, 'We're all one interconnected species.' But to do that, you have to put in some work along the way. That work is self-revelatory, but it's also a work of active imagination and broad empathy."


  • For Eshun, genuine unity demands more than rhetoric—it requires a purposeful willingness to understand and embrace our differences. “It's easy enough to say, we're all one people, … but to do that, you have to do some work along the way. That work is a self revelatory work, but it's also a work of active imagination. It's also a work of broad empathy. It's also a presumption of intimacy or connection, which I think is sometimes hard to get to.”


Additional Resources:




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Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion.

0:08.0

Welcome to the B.OF podcast. It's Friday, February 14th. At BofF Voices 2024, writer and cultural

0:16.6

curator, Echo Eschen, and world-renowned stage designer as Devlin came together for a vulnerable

0:23.2

interrogation of identity, otherness, and belonging through their latest works. For a project called

0:30.4

Congregation, as invited 50 Londoners from immigrant backgrounds, to be drawn and displayed inside

0:36.9

St. Mary Lestrand Church in London.

0:40.1

Echo's book, The Stranger, interrogates racial identity and belonging through the stories of

0:45.8

five black men spanning centuries and continents.

0:48.8

I wanted to encounter the layers of separation between me and others. I wanted to encounter the layers of separation between me and others.

0:57.0

I wanted to encounter my own racism, my own bias, my own separation.

1:03.0

It's easy enough to say, oh, we're all one people or we're all one set of interconnected species,

1:07.0

but to do that you have to do some work along the way.

1:10.0

That work is a self-revelatory

1:12.3

work, but it's also a work of active imagination. It's also a work of broad empathy.

1:20.4

On this week's episode of the BOF podcast, as an echo investigate how otherness shapes our sense

1:26.9

of belonging.

1:28.1

And they argue that true understanding requires a radical willingness

1:32.1

to open ourselves up to one another and in the process rediscover parts of ourselves.

1:38.8

With all of the conversation around fashion companies backtracking

1:42.2

on diversity, equity, and inclusion given the current

1:45.5

political climate, this is a timely episode that underscores the enduring importance of

1:51.2

humanity, empathy, and openness regardless of how you label it. Here's Esdevlin and Echo Eschen

...

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