Epstein, Trump & the MAGA Meltdown — Sorting Fact from Fiction

On with Kara Swisher

New York Magazine

News Commentary, News, Society & Culture

4.2 • 2.2K Ratings

🗓️ 28 July 2025

⏱️ 56 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Ever since Trump was re-elected in 2024, his MAGA base has been eagerly awaiting the release of the Epstein files. So it came as a shock when, in July, a Justice Department memo said they had reviewed the matter and determined that there was “no basis to revisit the disclosure of those materials,” that the rumored “client list” did not exist, and that there was no evidence Epstein “blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.” Suddenly, key pillars of the conspiracy theory were knocked down, by the very administration that promised to get to the bottom of the Epstein saga. Since then, MAGA has split into two factions: those who are siding with the administration and ready to move on, and those who still want the Epstein files released. To make matters worse for President Trump, recent stories in the Wall Street Journal have reminded the public that, for over a decade, Trump and Epstein were actually friends. And while it’s not evidence of a crime, recent reporting has also revealed that Trump’s name is, indeed, in the Epstein files. To help us separate the facts of the case from the thorny conspiracies that surround it, we’ve brought on Julie K. Brown and Donie O’Sullivan. Brown is an investigative reporter at The Miami Herald who began digging into the Epstein case in 2018, leading to his second arrest. O’Sullivan is a CNN senior correspondent who covers online misinformation and conspiracy theories. When reached for comment regarding allegations that it passed on the Epstein story, New York Times spokesperson Charlie Stadtlander responded with the following statement: The Times's coverage of Jeffrey Epstein has been hard-hitting and thorough, starting with the first legal charges against him in 2006. Since then, we've covered every step of the story involving Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, the powerful people in their orbit and the shadowy aftermath of Epstein's arrest and death in custody. We can't speak to whatever Julie K. Brown is saying the victims' lawyers told her -- neither of them has actually identified a New York Times journalist in this matter, and we have yet to find any record of such conversations. Times reporters continue to do tough and deep work to uncover and verify the facts about Epstein and those around him. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, everyone from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network.
0:15.7	This is on with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher.
0:18.6	Today, I'm talking to Julie Kay Brown and Donie O'Sullivan. We're going to
0:22.5	unpack the Jeffrey Epstein saga and dig into how it became such a rallying cry for MAGA and why
0:27.8	it's consuming our politics. We'll try to separate fact from fiction, point out the big questions we can't
0:33.5	answer, and analyze how President Trump is trying to deal with his base's anger.
0:38.4	Julie is an investigative reporter for the Miami Herald, who's reporting on Jeffrey Epstein,
0:42.5	reignited interest in the case and ultimately led to his re-arrest.
0:46.6	She's the author of Perversion of Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein story, and she's won multiple awards,
0:51.8	including a George Polk Award, as well as a Pulitzer Prize for
0:55.2	her work on the Miami Herald's coverage of the Surfside condo collapse. She is a perfect investigative
1:01.6	reporter, and much of what's happening here is due to her work. Donie is a CNN senior correspondent
1:08.0	who covers online misinformation and conspiracy theories and how they interact
1:12.4	with politics and culture. Before we dive into the interview, here's a quick primer on the Epstein case.
1:18.7	Jeffrey Epstein was a wealthy financier with homes in Palm Beach, Manhattan, and the private island
1:23.5	in the Virgin Islands. He hobnobbed with many rich and powerful men, including President Trump.
1:29.8	In 2005, the parents of a 14-year-old girl in Palm Beach County went to the police and reported
1:34.8	that he molested their daughter at his mansion. Later, more underage girls came forward with
1:40.2	similar stories. Epstein was charged with multiple counts of unlawful sex with a minor,
1:45.2	and the story could have ended there, but instead Epstein's lawyers negotiated with then U.S.
1:49.8	attorney in Miami, Alex Acosta, to get what's been called the deal of the century. In the end,
1:55.7	he pleaded guilty to two state charges involving a single victim, one count of solicitation
	...

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