Hello, this is Jonathan Lehman and Mark Devere.

For Pastors Talk podcast.

Or we cast as me pods as we can.

And Nine Marks, in case you don't know, is a ministry that seeks to equip church leaders with a biblical vision and practical resources for building healthy churches.

Learn more at nine marks.org.

That's why you say, because of this, equip with resources that you have edited or pulled together, what, 50 books with the Nine Marks stamp on them that have

been published over the last 15 years?

Something like that, a little over 50.

Wow.

What does that have to do with this?

Healthy Church resources.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

That cast a biblical vision.

All for free on the Nine Marks website.

Well, the links are for free. The links to how you buy them.

That's exactly right. Wow. All right. The articles are all free though. This podcast is worth

every cent you're paying for it. It is. Right now. Maybe twice that. Well, listen, this podcast,

by the way, it's called Pastors Talk. Because here, pastors talk.

That's what we're doing.

And I wanted to think about this whole idea of what it means to be pastoral.

I mean, if we're going to be pastors talking, what does it mean to be pastoral?

What inspired me is an article from Kevin DeYoung who wrote an excellent article asking this question called

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