So yeah, I mean I was almost completely passed out, but then he did that and I kind of like freaked out.

And then all Rich Lowry did was just a drive drive drive and should we like call a cops or something and he said drive don't we can never explain this and there's a cheese that's that's pretty well well the episode started.

Oh, let's let's get going okay.

Greetings dear listeners. This is Jonah Goldberg the host of the Remnant podcast brought to you this week from the Bows of the American Enterprise Institute and put out over the glorious do hikis and thing about the series of pullies and the medics tubes of national review podcasts with me is Jack Butler.

Say hello Jack Butler.

So that coming and yes predictable, but it always gets a cheap laugh. That's what I'm all about. So we decided to do this in large part because we are scheduled to do or we're trying to work out the logistics of doing a podcast with Ben Sass.

But since I'm going to have to be on the road and he's going to have to be on the road and I don't trust the technology to work out just right we figured we would put this sort of quasi rank punetry catch up episode in the can or out there.

And if the sass thing happens great if it doesn't happen will put off for next week. So this week's episode or this week's episodes depending on how this works out are brought to you by conversations with Bill Crystal will have more about that and a little bit.

But for now it's just Jack and I Jack how are you?

Oh well I'm fine thank you for asking. Is that is that to make up for the fact that I didn't talk last time that you're just bringing me on in such a casual way.

Well it wasn't so much that you didn't talk it's that I would say for the last 45 minutes you sat there very much the way like.

Are you going to compare me to a dog I am my dog Zoe sits in the front seat when she sees a dog she doesn't approve of crossing the street.

Her eyes now and she just glares at it and you can just hear this very low growl coming out and you kind of like we're glaring and quite clearly cross about the whole thing.

Macabre Richtus is the phrase you used to describe my face which I think fit quite well.

And also a great iron maiden cover band probably probably and yes for people who don't know what we're talking about the last episode of the remnant we had.

Yoram Hazoni on to talk about his book the virtues of national is or two virtue right sorry there's only one.

And I mean maybe I don't know if it makes sense to talk about this right here but I.

I was very frustrated with that podcast and I didn't realize my frustration towards the end I like your own is only I think his book is really interesting.

I think he's kind of a spellbinding guy to talk to.

But over the course of about an hour and 45 minutes.

If you listen closely to a podcast I kept trying to start an argument about something about one thing or another thing is I'm a critic of nationalism and instead it dawned on me towards the end of the thing that his preferred mode of argumentation on this stuff is to pull back it's sort of like a rope a dope thing and you know and to say well look you know.

I'm not trying to solve all the world's problems whenever I tried to point out that nationalism could go off the rails is well then that's not nationalism right because nationalism is about staying within your borders not going beyond them once you go beyond them it's sort of imperialism and I just.

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