Hi everybody and welcome to another Robcast and I am here with Ron Stefe and

honestly I love doing these Robcasts because when I'm interviewing somebody I kind of know where

we're going to go and I kind of have no idea what we're going to go. Hey it's great I just know

I want to get a Roncast actually that's how I want. Until he has a Roncast, Ron will be on the

Robcast and Ron is the National, is a director of the National Religious Campaign against

Torture and I love how he was just saying that torture is not a lot of room for laughing.

Not a light topic, no not at all. But it was it was interesting when I met you how you

in the first 30 seconds that we were talking at this party that we met at, Ron was expanding,

he expanded my definition, you expanded my definition of torture like instantly because I think

torture I think there's a terrorist who's got a bomb and Jack Bauer from the show 24 has got a

car battery hooked up. You don't even mean that exactly. No I mean that's what people think of when

they think of torture. Is there's an impending emergency? Something's going to happen to you you

need something you need to be made safe and so the good guy is going to go find out what is

going to make you safe, extract information and everybody's going to go home happy and the person

is going to go to jail who is going to blow the world up. That's what most people think of when

they think of torture. And so you're the director of the National Religious Campaign against torture

across the board which I sense tell us then how you understand torture and where we would see

where torture is happening that we wouldn't necessarily understand. Well it's a moral mandate and

it's really important that the faith community has come together nationally on this. This organization

is about 10 years old and we have our roots back to just after 9-11 when people didn't know what

was going to happen in the World Trade Center had just been bombed. People really were feeling

very unsafe. A torture program was initiated by the CIA and at that point we realized that the

...