On this episode of Newtz World, in his new book, never forget our people were always free,

a parable of American healing.

Ben Jellis draws from his own life, lived on America's racial fault line, to deliver

a series of gripping and lively parables that fall on each of us to reconcile, heal, and

work fearlessly to make America one nation.

Those of the series of parables, never forget our people were always free, features intimate

glimpses of political and faith leaders, including Jack Kemp, Stacey Abrams, and the late Archbishop

Desmond Tutu.

Here to discuss his new book, I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Ben Jellis.

He is the former National NAACP President and current President of People for the American

Way, professor of the practice at the University of Pennsylvania, and the New York Times best-selling

author of Reach, 40 Black Men Speak on Living, Leading and Seceding.

Ben, welcome, and thank you for joining me on Newtz World.

Thank you for having me on.

Man, I have to share with the audience that when we first chatted, you pointed out, you first

met me when you were an intern for Leon Panetta, and I was a junior congressman.

So in a way, our paths have crossed many times over the years.

Yes, many, many times indeed.

And, yeah, I was a page back when they still had pages in the US, working for Leon.

You were on your rise in the Congress.

It was something to watch, you know, even as a Democrat, I admired your grit and I admired

your ambition.

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