Hey everyone, I'm Amid al-Yukber, and this is See Something Say Something.

This week, we're going to be talking to a writer about his magical trick where he gets us to read thousands of words about bands that we didn't even know that we wanted to like.

If you see something, you better, you better say something.

Nothing at all.

Nothing at all.

So at the end of the episode, we're going to do a gut check about Stefan Clark's shooting by the police.

But first, we're going to talk to

poet and cultural critic Hanif Abderakib about being the only person of color in white punk

spaces, why Arabic was like the first song he ever heard. And we're also going to play a little

game with him.

So, Hanif of the Rakhib's most recent book is They Can't Kill Us Until They Kill Us,

which is a collection of essays and meditations on music.

It's really fascinating, and I recommend you all read it.

And he has a couple of poetry collections and upcoming books as well.

Welcome, Hanif.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's a joy to be here.

We've been wanting to have you on for a long time, so we're really excited. In your book, one of the things and in your essays, you love talking about Carly Ray Jepson. I do. Yeah, I've written about her four times total now. Why do you love her so much? I think I'm interested in the idea of a pop star.

And I feel like a weird thing has happened where people get really heady with her music and then it becomes a real academic

thing, and I don't want to do that, but what I am drawn to her most because of is the idea that

in her song, desire is a muse instead of having an actual physical body as the muse.

And I like the idea of a desire that is not promised an end point, you know, where oftentimes

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