Hello and welcome to another episode of Mindfulness Plus. I'm your host Thomas McConkey. Thank you for joining us today.

Once again, we are fortunate to have an esteemed guest in our studios.

John T. Kessler is with us this morning. John, how are you? Good, thanks. Good. Good to be with you.

Good to be with you. So if you're new to the show, John did an interview with us in season one a few years ago.

And it was a really, it was a great episode and conversation and practice that he offered us.

We focused on that episode a little bit more on John, the person, who he is and how he came into practice.

So if you missed that, I'd encourage you to go back to it.

It's great context and rewarding listening.

But since we have that episode archived, I wanted to spend a little bit more time

on just a specific aspect of practice today.

And so if you're hungry to know more about John Kessler, you can go to season one of Mindfulness Plus.

So John, I thought, because we're fortunate to have you today

and have a few minutes with you,

I wanted to explore a little bit the theme of trust that you teach about really beautifully in IPP.

And IPP, again, if you're new, stands for integral polarity practice.

And John talks about that in his earlier interview.

So right out of the gate, let me ask you about what you've found to be the role of trust in this beautiful practice

you've created as well as facilitating it with other people.

Well, trust is a still point that arises or doesn't arise in a relational environment.

The way I hold it is using a polarity of agency and communion,

a sense of separation and choice and a sense of communion with others or communion in any kind of

relational environment. Yeah. Nature, spirit, organization. Yeah.

...