Episode 5: The Sanchez Problem
Against the Rules with Michael Lewis
Pushkin Industries
4.4 • 9.9K Ratings
🗓️ 3 May 2022
⏱️ 40 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
There’s one kind of expert whose role is enshrined in law: that of the expert witness, who’s called on to bolster one side of a case. But courtrooms are not great places for nuance. Overconfident expert testimony has been linked to countless wrongful convictions, especially in gang-related cases. Michael speaks with a new kind of expert witness: former gang members who struggle to counteract the testimony of police.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Pushkin. |
| 0:09.4 | When I was a little kid, my father used to tell this story about when he was a young lawyer |
| 0:15.4 | in New Orleans. |
| 0:18.8 | It was one of those stories that sounded a bit different to you as a grown-up than as |
| 0:22.3 | a child, but maybe all stories do. |
| 0:25.0 | Anyway, in my father's telling, he just started at a law firm. |
| 0:29.8 | And that firm had been hired by a big railroad company. |
| 0:33.8 | The railroad was defending itself against one of its own employees. |
| 0:38.2 | This poor worker had lost his arms in an accident, for which the railroad was clearly responsible. |
| 0:45.3 | My father's job was to minimize the amount of money that the railroad had to pay to the |
| 0:49.7 | employee. |
| 0:51.7 | My dad went hunting for a creative defense. |
| 0:54.3 | I don't know where I got the idea, but the idea was that handicapped people can still work. |
| 1:04.8 | That's my dad, Tom Lewis. |
| 1:07.2 | His hunt for a creative defense led him to Nashville, Tennessee, where he found, well, he actually |
| 1:13.1 | found an expert who trained people with no arms to do lots of amazing things. |
| 1:19.3 | This expert promised to show any jury that it wasn't a big deal at all to lose your arms. |
| 1:23.9 | You could still do so much. |
| 1:26.0 | My father was so impressed that he flew the guy to New Orleans and put him on a witness |
| 1:29.5 | stand as an expert witness. |
| 1:33.0 | And he said, oh, yes, he said, and then he started to give me an example. |
| 1:37.2 | This is on the stand. |
... |
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