Episode 5: Sheep and Goats
Rachel Maddow Presents: Burn Order
MS NOW
4.8 • 1.4K Ratings
🗓️ 13 December 2025
⏱️ 49 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The article appeared in Harper's Magazine, and there was a little bit of mystery as to how it got in there. |
| 0:08.3 | The byline said it had been written by an intelligence officer. |
| 0:13.6 | But that's all it said. No other identifying information. No name. |
| 0:18.1 | In the spring of 1943, this anonymous article by some anonymous person purporting to be an |
| 0:25.9 | intelligence officer, it landed on the desk of Justice Department lawyer Edward Ennis. |
| 0:31.9 | Edward Ennis, at that moment, was in an unenviable and stressful position at his job. |
| 0:39.8 | He had been one of the most insistent, most impassioned voices inside the Justice Department |
| 0:45.2 | fighting to try to stop a policy that he believed was unconstitutional and immoral. |
| 0:53.2 | The mass incarceration of Japanese immigrants and Japanese-American |
| 0:57.9 | citizens on the U.S. West Coast. |
| 1:00.8 | It was a not-necessary military act, and perhaps the greatest violation of civil liberties in the United |
| 1:08.7 | States. |
| 1:10.6 | Edward Ennis had lost that fight. But now, |
| 1:14.0 | in the spring of 1943, the policy is being fought in court. Four young Japanese Americans, |
| 1:21.7 | Gordon Hirabayashi, Min Yasui, Fred Korematsu, and Mitsue Endo are all challenging their incarceration, and their |
| 1:31.1 | cases are all heading to the U.S. Supreme Court. And in a kind of twisted irony, at the Justice |
| 1:37.6 | Department, it's him. It's Edward Ennis, who is put in charge of preparing the government's defense against those cases. |
| 1:47.0 | My office prepared the briefs for the government in Korematsu, Yasui, and Inda, which, as I say, is a curious commentary on the responsibility of the Department of Justice in defending policies, which it, in fact, opposed. |
| 2:04.9 | It is certainly not the job he wanted, but it's the job he has. |
| 2:11.1 | And so, Edward Ennis puts his feelings aside, he gets to work. |
| 2:15.5 | He starts looking for evidence that will help DOJ defend the incarceration policy in court. |
| 2:23.3 | And it is during that search when this anonymous article from Harper's Magazine lands on his desk. |
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