Thanks for episode 5. Paradise contains strong language and upsetting scenes.

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That's my mother and that's Duane and that's me and from the looks of it I must have been about 15 there which would make Duane 11

And he looks like every normal little boy, doesn't he?

Happy, good looking little boy.

Yeah, he was a nice little kid.

I never had any trouble with him.

I took him to church because I thought it was terrible that

mother didn't go to church. I never saw him be mean to anybody, not person or

animal or anything. I really thought about it after all this came up and I thought I cannot ever remember him doing that.

And I thought usually psychos would hurt animals when they were children.

And was that what you think that little boy became a psycho?

Yeah, I think he had to be a psycho to kill those people like that. No matter where you go

You'll never have control

No one makes it out of life No one makes it out alive in paradise

Welcome to episode five and from your responses last week's episode was a bit of a jaw dropper which is exactly

how it felt to us at the time have to say and it was as I think we've said the moment that we

realized we would need to do a lot more digging.

So this week I am happy to introduce you to the third member of our podcast team who is

LA-based journalist Annie de Gratzia, who you'll meet shortly from here on in she's our eyes and is on the ground in California.

The other thing of you lots of picking up on is the use of the word normal in that question

that was put to Vince in episode 2 and whether the trauma he was facing at that moment on the

...