Hi, friends. Welcome to another episode of That Sounds Fun. I'm your host, Annie F. Downs. I'm so happy to be with you today. Before we dive into today's conversation, I want to tell you about one of our incredible partners. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Y'all know we left therapy around here, and spoiler alert, we're going to talk to a couple of more therapists during our October Build Your Board series. Okay, have you heard about the Build Your Board series? Go listen to the trailer on this feed and hear about what is coming in October.

But therapy is such a helpful tool in processing grief, trauma, and just those everyday moments when you feel stuck or overwhelmed.

Counseling has had a huge impact on my life. Y'all know this, and I will always be an advocate for it.

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Today on the show, I have the honor of getting to talk with Dr. Scott McKnight. Dr. McKnight is a professor of New Testament and a recognized authority on the New Testament early Christianity and the historical Jesus y'all know I love hearing from people who are experts on the Gospels.

He's also the author of more than 90 bookshelf like 90 what today we are talking about his latest book co-written with Laura Baringer, his daughter. It is called Pivot, which is an important read if you're a pastor or a church leader or a business leader.

Pivot's a practical guide to help you build a culture in your church or organization that resists abuse and cultivates goodness.

Gosh, this message is so needed and so important when it comes to leadership and any capacity. I think you're really going to love learning from him today.

So here is my conversation with Dr. Scott McKnight. Dr. McKnight, welcome to That Sounds Fun. Thank you so much for making time for this.

Well, thank you. I'm honored to be with you, Annie.

Well, it's a huge honor for me. I'll tell you. You know, it sounds fun. Let's talk about the church falling apart. Yay.

Here we go. I got to hear you speak at Lisa Harper's conference last year. Not long after your first book, a church called Tove came out.

Will you talk a little bit about that book? It's kind of feels in a lot of ways like the predecessor for pivot. Yes.

It is and we wrote Tove and I often say my daughter wrote it with me that she pestered me till I wrote that book.

I wanted to write less important, less significant things. Yes.

But we experienced firsthand the explosion of issues at Will Creek. And as a professor of seminary students, my students were asking me questions.

But I also as a blogger, my readers were asking me questions. So all of a sudden, I thought, I got to figure out what I want to say about this kind of topic.

And what happened is I wrote a blog post that sort of went viral about Willow Creek. And then I began to talk more and more with my students.

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