Hey, it's Max, so Evan and Aaron are on vacation this week and we actually had a whole

episode ready to go, it was done last week, but then Roe was overturned and in the aftermath

of that decision I read this piece by Rebecca Tracer on the cut.

It was about her reaction to that moment, it's a moment that she has been saying publicly

is coming for a very long time and it was also about how it's going to get worse from

here and about how she's thinking about moving forward, both herself and the country.

So anyway, I read the piece and then immediately wrote a note to Rebecca, she's a writer at

New York Magazine, she's the author of a book called Good and Mad, it's about the political

power of women's anger and she was generous enough to come talk to me yesterday for a while.

It's actually the second time we've talked for the show, the first time somehow was the day

that it became clear that Brett Kavanaugh would be the next Supreme Court justice and what I wanted

to talk to her about was her intellectual response to the Roe news but also her emotional response

to it and how those two things combine into a piece like the one that she published on Friday,

but we also ended up talking about how her writing has changed over the last year, how it changed

when the Alito leak came and also how she thinks it might change going forward.

Thanks to the folks at Vox with whom we make this show and now here's my conversation with

Rebecca Tracer. Yes, please.

Hi Rebecca. Hi Max. The last time we talked for the show at least, it was a day in which it

became clear that Brett Kavanaugh was going to be the next Supreme Court justice and we sat down

and I asked how you were feeling and here we are again and so I will ask how you feeling.

I mean I'm feeling very similarly to how I did that day. I mean that day, I count that day as one

of my, I have five moments in recent years in which I very specifically understood that this was

...