Welcome listeners to another episode of Listen, Learn, and Love hosted by Richard Osler.

Joining me via Zoom from her home in Virginia is my friend Jamie Clemer. Welcome to the podcast, Jamie.

Thank you for having me, Richard. Well, you spell your name? You're kind of a cool first

name and last name. Just spell your name so people can get it in their minds before we start.

I will. It's J-A-I-M-E. And nobody spells it with the I-1-1-1. So you will always remember J-A-I-M-E because it's pretty unusual. And tell us how to spell

your last name. Yes, C-L-E-M-M-E-R. And I don't run into too many Clemers either.

Oh, there you go. You can find Jane. We're going to talk the, I like as you know, listeners to tell you what we're going to talk about before we dive in so you can kind of be aware. We're going to talk the, I like as you know listeners to tell you what we're

going to talk about before we dive in so you can kind of be aware. We're going to talk about Jamie

has written a book about the death, the sudden death of her 10-year-old son, Sawyer, who died in February

of 2006. Sorry, that's when he was born. He died in October of 2016, five years ago.

And I'll read a little bit about this book. This book was produced by Cedar Fort, but it's a

desert book. We live in a culture that seldom speaks openly about grief. In some instances, we're

even embarrassed to show our sorrow.

Why are we ashamed to cry?

Why do we feel that sharing sadness is unacceptable?

How can we effectively mourn with those that mourn if no one is willing to share their heartache?

So I love that, Jamie, and I love those open-ended questions that causes to look inward and think,

well, you need to improve our culture so we can better minister and bear and comfort when

really difficult sort of your worst-case nightmare has become reality.

So listeners, that's kind of the introduction.

I just, you know, we don't visit a long time before we start these podcasts.

I kind of like to turn over their guests and trust my guests that they'll be able to share their story.

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