Welcome to this week's episode of Startups for the Rest of Us. I'm your host, Rob Walling. Each week on the show, we cover topics relating to building and growing ambitious yet sustainable startups. And this week's guest is Jordan Gall. You may know him from Bootstrapped Web, also the founder of Cart Hook. And in this episode of startups for the rest of us, I talk with Jordan about what I've seen as one of the gutsiest price increases

and sales process changes by going up market that I've ever seen.

The quote that I'm using in the title is,

we went from hundreds of free trials to a few dozen on purpose.

This is Start Up for the Rest of Us, episode 476.

Welcome to Startups for the Rest of Us, the podcast, it helps developers, designers, and

entrepreneurs be awesome at building, launching, and growing startups.

With you built your fifth startup or you're thinking about your first.

I'm Rob, and today with Jordan Gall, we're here to share our experiences to hope you avoid the mistakes we've made.

It's a great conversation today.

And in fact, oftentimes I say we have many different episode formats.

This one is less of an interview, and it's more of me just letting Jordan go on this topic

because he thought about it so deeply with his team and it was the realization of our

churn is way too high and we're just running on this treadmill that's getting faster and

faster and the business doesn't feel healthy.

How do we fix that?

It's not one tactic.

It's not changing, making people email not one tactic. It's not changing,

making people email to cancel you. It's not moving to annual plans. It's not the little tactics.

It's how do we revamp our entire sales and onboarding and pricing process and go up market to change the nature of our business. And that's what we talk about today. And it's,

you can tell during the interview that I'm obviously impacted by it. And I was impacted from the

outside. So I'm an angel investor in Cart Hook. Cart Hook has raised a small amount of money to,

...