The Apostle Paul says that Christ has given leaders to the church to "equip" the saints not to "serve" the saints. So why do we treat pastors like entertainers, CEOs, or suppliers of religious goods and services? Micah Fries talks about his new book, "Leveling the Church," and how healing the clergy-laity divide is more important than ever. Also this week: a study finds Christians are more likely to own dogs while atheists own cats—but there's a twist. The end has come for TV eschatologist Jack Van Impe. And Ethical Veganism has become a recognized religion in the UK launching the podcast crew into a wider discussion about ethics and animals.