So we're in this like curious point in history where people are submitting more and more than will ever be like published by these big houses, but then on the other hand self-publishing and the Amazon, I mean that's the sort of like looming thing that we've yet to kind of talk about is that Amazon and Bizos and the Kindle Web Empire is just allowing people to put everything like put more and more and more and more I mean we can call them books we can call them content we can call it whatever

onto the internet and self-publishing is bigger than ever and then of course

then Brace like you mentioned at the beginning of the show, the whole audible industry,

which brings in another layer of, you know, what is kind of like running through this,

which is the relationship between readers and authors and how important

that is to the publishing industry and audio books it seems have become an interesting way

for authors to kind of deepen that relationship almost on a

parasocial level in a weird way which then feeds into these other genres

like fan fiction and all of this other stuff and and young adult of course but I do want to talk a little bit before we wrap up

about Amazon because yeah they're just a behemoth and they've completely and totally shifted this industry, not just

from the, you know, obviously from the book selling angle, but also from the publishing

angle or the publishing side of things.

And I think there was a period where everyone at the,

you know, whatever the big five or however many it was back then,

by kind of like 2007, 2008 2008 like didn't know if I remember this like people

would be like what we you know man no one's going to read books anymore it's just

going to be like on the

big five publishing the big five publishing

are for now okay and still publishing and still going

but no doubt Amazon has completely changed the way we read and the way we write and

and we should maybe we can talk about what you know in some of those ways that's happened.

Totally yeah so I mean one one ways that's happened. Totally, yeah.

...