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Ask Haviv Anything

Episode 36: How marginalized Mizrahim became Israel's first spies

Ask Haviv Anything

Haviv Rettig Gur

History

4.9640 Ratings

🗓️ 15 August 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Long before the operational successes of the Mossad would become the stuff of legend in the espionage world, before the Twelve Day War, before Eli Cohen, before the Mossad itself had even come into being, a small ragtag band of courageous young Jews, without training or equipment, built the country’s first espionage arm to help the nascent Jewish state defend itself against its enemies.


Journalist and author Matti Friedman returns to the podcast to talk about his book, Spies of No Country, about the Mizrahi Jewish young men who became the Jewish state’s first spies in the Arab world. Their heroic, tragic, sometimes funny stories help us fill in the longstanding lacunae in the larger story of Israel’s founding and of present-day Israeli society by paying closer attention to the enormous role and influence played by Arab-world Jews in forging today’s Israel.


This episode was sponsored by the Lichterman Family of Jupiter, Florida, and dedicated to the memory and bravery of Aner Shapira, 22 from Jerusalem, who was slain in the Hamas attack on the Supernova music festival on October 7. Aner attended the rave next to the Gaza border with a group of friends from Jerusalem, including his close childhood friend, Hersh Goldberg-Polin. When the rocket fire began, they left by car and stopped on the side of the road to seek safety in a roadside bomb shelter next to Kibbutz Re’im. Aner and his friends were among the last people to squeeze inside the shelter, where they soon realized that terrorists were gathering outside to attack. Aner positioned himself at the entrance to the shelter, where he caught and threw back seven grenades before the eighth exploded and killed him. Of the 27 people inside the shelter, only seven emerged alive. Those who survived did so because of Aner’s bravery.


Please join me on Patreon to support this project: ⁠www.patreon.com/AskHavivAnything⁠.


If you would like to sponsor an episode, please email us at [email protected]⁠.


Musical intro by Adam Ben Amitai.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hi, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of Ask Habib Anything.

0:09.1

This is going to be a special episode. I say that far too often. I get mocked about it in the Patreon community. I'm going to stick with it.

0:18.1

But this one really is special. It's a coming of age episode for this podcast

0:21.2

because it's the first time that we've ever asked a guest to come back. And the reason for that

0:27.3

is that Mati Friedman has written not one book, the book we talked about last time, pumpkin flowers

0:32.7

about the Lebanon War, which you need to understand if you want to understand Israeli psychology,

0:37.3

Palestinian psychology, Palestinian

0:38.0

psychology, what Hamas thinks it's doing, how the relationship between Israel and various

0:44.7

jihadi groups, Islamist groups around it, developed over the years. That was a fascinating

0:49.8

conversation. We enjoyed it very much. And the book is not just analytically fascinating. It's

0:56.0

lyrical. It's actually beautifully written. Mati is a long-time acquaintance. I consider him a friend. We're

1:02.9

going to hear soon if he considers me his friend. I just want to put in some, you know,

1:08.7

real reality television vibes here to create emotional suspense.

1:15.4

Today we've asked him back to talk about another absolutely fascinating book that he wrote

1:22.1

about five years back called Spies of No Country, about Mizrahi Jewish spies who were at the founding

1:32.3

of the Mossad, pre-Mosad, actually pre-state spies for the Yeshua, for the Palomach, for the

1:40.3

Haganah and the Jewish community in the land.

1:45.0

And their fascinating story, not just the espionage aspect of it,

1:48.0

Israeli espionage would go on to be an empire,

1:51.0

just one of the greatest espionage agencies, the Mossad,

1:55.0

and several other agencies as well,

1:57.0

and espionage ecosystem in the history of the craft.

...

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