You have a bunch of quote-on-quote rehabilitative programs in prison. They're supposed to fix us.

But then this is a punitive setting.

Those labels violent and nonviolent, they carry a lot of weight in prison as well.

It's hard to imagine anything therapeutic or rehabilitative happening in this kind of setting.

But you still need to make the effort to try to change this environment.

And I think college in prison is probably the only thing.

Where you can actually have a chance to look at your environment

and have the important conversations

that we need to have, to do what I call heavy lifting.

There's a long tradition in this field

that unfortunately, many decision makers are still

susceptible to where we think we can as Rodney says fix people and there's no

place that that happens more than in the prison.

It's a complete failure of empathy on the part of those social scientists

and those decision makers in that they refuse to look at incarcerated as people who are fully as complicated and

difficult as themselves.

Hi everybody. Hi everybody, I'm Josie Duffy Rice.

Hi everybody, I'm Josie Duffy Rice and this is Justice in America.

Each show we discuss a topic in the American Criminal Justice System and we try to explain what it is and how it works.

As always, you can find us on Twitter

at Justice Underscore Podcast.

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