You're listening to the Bible for Normal People, the only God-ordained podcast on the internet.

Serious talk about the sacred book, I'm Pete Ends. And I'm Jared Bias.

Hello, welcome, Normal People, to our episode today, which is the Bible,

race, and white supremacy, and our guest is Drew Hart. Drew is a professor of theology at my

alma mater, Messiah College. And he's an author, he's an activist, he's got a lot of pastoral

experience. They let you into Messiah? They did. Wow. That was a long time ago.

The check cleared. Or I was a fifth colonel. One of the other, I don't know how it happened, but yeah.

So here I am. Right down the street from us, if the Pennsylvania term flag is a street for two

hours, you know, anyway, but Drew has a lot of experience in partnering with community groups

and churches across the country by facilitating anti-racism trainings and seminars and things

like that. And he's here to talk with us today about just this very important topic of the Bible,

race, and white supremacy. And I heard about Drew. His book came out not too long ago, the trouble

I've seen, changing the way that church views racism. He came to our congregation. Here we attend

midnight church up in the area and he facilitated some workshops around race. And so it was

really interesting to have him on, especially as we're recording this, not too far in the distant past,

was the events of Charlottesville where there was white supremacists. And so that language has

become a really hot topic in conversations around the church and some of the groups that we

find ourselves a part of. So thought this was a really relevant and important time to talk about.

What struck me too, Jared, is just how Drew defined white supremacy. It's not what we always think

it is. Right. Yeah. It's about, well, how did he put it? Do you remember how he said it?

I don't know. I said, I remember how I said it. Yeah, as you say it. I talked about the preference

for whiteness. The preference for whiteness. Yeah. And it's sometimes very subtle. We don't even

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