You know, that's one of those things I thought, like, moment, you know, is there another party that's out there that you know, we talked about if it could have been somebody else. That's the thing. I've always wondered if there was somebody else that.

Amy was protected.

When this thing goes according to trial, I have one shot more opportunity to be not guilty or I go to prison in death row.

Except reality of it.

We have busted alibis, we have caught people in line.

This is just insane because everybody's pointing the finger at somebody else.

You just don't hear every day walking in somebody's house or going to take the plastic out and pop somebody.

So he could get the execution date pretty much any day?

Yeah. There's no impediments.

This is Cousins by Blood.

Episode 17, The Syndicate.

In all of Amy's statements to police and on the witness stand at trial, and when Eishenberg and I interviewed her in Minnesota,

one thing has stayed consistent for Amy.

And that is that the engagement ring she was wearing and showing off was Amy Kitchen's engagement ring.

She said she didn't know it at the time, but she said she later found out that that was Amy Kitchen's diamond platinum engagement ring.

And that she received that engagement ring from Ivan shortly after midnight on November 4th after Ivan committed the murders.

And that's what makes the interview in this episode so interesting.

And like most of the investigation in this case, it starts with a call out of the blue, with a name that people hadn't thought about in 20 years.

Yeah, I just missed a call, but I don't recognize the number.

Hey, buddy. Yeah, this is Matt Duff. I'm the proper investigator working on Ivan Cantus case.

Okay.

I found this guy's name, who we'll call Derek, on a printed out email from 2008, with a subject heading, email from Ivan's old friend.

...