Welcome to Crystal Kindland friends.

Today we're going to be talking to a guy named John Washington who wrote an interesting book called The Case for Open Borders.

Yeah, I heard Ryan Grimm interviewed him and I thought it was really interesting and I had some additional questions and we listen to some of the book and that interview and all that.

So it'll be obviously it's very relevant given the debate that's happening.

Now I'll be clear up front with everybody you're gonna want to sign up you're going to want to watch this

because I don't agree with open borders so it might be a bit of a debate yeah because he

forced me to think about what are my actual policy preferences when it comes to the

border and I wrote down here's how I would address it if I was

emperor for a day and it's not open borders so it'll be interesting to have a

back and forth see if he can change my mind right I mean I'm open but I'm

also kind of stubborn and I think I nailed it with what I prefer.

Yeah, well one of the things that he argues that I think is really important in this moment is just the fact that you know putting aside the

humanity and the immorality of our current border system and certainly of what

Democrats were trying to get Republicans to agree to which was just like horrific

was their own ideas?

Right and that it was such a bizarre situation

which we can talk to him about that too,

but all of the framing of immigration

in this country from the news media is all that it's a crisis

that migrants want to come to this country when it would really be a crisis if

everyone wanted to leave this country and you can see this internally.

Places that are losing population are struggling. These are the places

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