Hey, it's Jack here. I'm currently in the snowy hills of Switzerland, recording this from the back of my camper van with the heater up high. So forgive the audio quality for a moment. It won't be like this for the episode, just the introduction. For those who have seen, I've been producing content

for a new YouTube channel, bringing new conversations with philosophers and thinkers of our time,

and today on the pan-psychas, I'd like to share another one of those conversations, which I had

recently with Ed Winters, aka Earthling Ed. It was fresh off the back of my recent debate for

the Jubilee series series where I debated 20

meat eaters defending veganism, and me and Ed had a really interesting discussion about some of the

internal tensions within vegan philosophy. As you'll hear, we agree on a lot, but we do disagree

on the moral status of non-animals, which Ed rejects, and whether veganism should involve

avoiding products tied to slave labor, which he also

rejects. You can watch the conversation on YouTube now to search Dr. Jack Symes or sit back and

listen here. Thank you again for your support. I hope welcome to the show.

Thank you very much, Jack.

I appreciate it.

It's bloody lovely to see you.

I'm a big fan of your work.

You can see you from a mile off in you.

You bloody tall with your beautiful long hair. Oh, gosh, you flatter me. No, I sparked you from down the streetway and outside just a moment. I'm so excited to see you. I'm exhausted from a long haul flight, but I'm sort of got this buzz in me and it's completely disappeared the moment we've sat down. Good. Oh, that's very, no, I like this. This is nice. I need you to hang out with me all the time. You make it feel good. Well, I've sort of fresh off the back of doing Jubilee, which you haven't had chance to see it because you're a bloody busy man, writing, you multiple books and going around the world, debating people and sharing vegan ideas as well. We were just talking before,

how brilliant the vegan community is, is something I've been blown away by myself. Like,

done media stuff before and spoken about some controversial ideas. Yeah. And then the backlash

is enormous from like, you know, whether it's death threats from the right and people being really, you know, upset and attacking you constantly.

And then people on the left, they don't seem to be as supportive when you're talking to those ideas.

There's just the backlash.

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