We would encourage them to get help and this was their last chance. Look, you can turn around to

the back of the room and you can seek these services. And from there, it's basically tell everybody

in your click that if anyone commits a triggering offense, the whole group gets traded like a baseball

court. Welcome to Citizen. We've got a special guest today. North Carolina Supreme Court

Justice, Associate Justice, Phil Berger. Hello. Thank you for joining. Hey, Dan. Thank you for

having me. How did we meet? Well, so how did you how did you how did we come into contact? I don't

I don't really remember. Yeah, I was I was listening to Drinking Bros and you were interviewing Clark

Pennington with the Independence Fund. And Clark was talking about a precedencing program that

that he does with the Independence Fund. And sort of an idea for a program in North Carolina

came to mind and I message you on social media said, Hey, Dan, what do you what do you think about

this? Is this worth pursuing? And then you connected me with Sarah and the Independence Fund and sort

of went from there and it's been just pleasure to meet you. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it's I think

what you're doing is important. What Clark has done is important and it's gone on in other places

before to to a different degree. We talked about a little bit last night, but the one that existed

prior was called critical time intervention. And there was a 32 state grant, I think, but it was

a limited scope program and essentially it was mostly one of my buddies braced it up in Virginia,

but it was it was a pretty pretty limited scope where one person would go into a couple of

departments in an area and try to train cops on how to deal with veterans, right? Now you brought

this you guys collectively brought this to a whole new level. We'll get into that in a bit.

But first let's get into to you. So it's Phil Berger, Jr. Tell me about Phil Berger, Sr.

So my father went to law school late in life. I was third grade. He was a press board operator

at the local pulp mill factory in a really small town in North Carolina and he's standing at the end

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