Episode 115: Trump’s Tariffs and the WTO’s Future with Stuart Harbinson

Global Economy Podcast

ECIPE

Business

4.2 • 5 Ratings

🗓️ 14 July 2025

⏱️ 46 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode of the Global Economy Podcast, Fredrik Erixon speaks with Stuart Harbinson, former WTO Ambassador and senior fellow at ECIPE, about the state of global trade, the Trump tariffs, and the future of the World Trade Organization (WTO). They explore the erosion of the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) principle, the rise of bilateralism, and the threat this poses to multilateral trade rules. The discussion highlights historical lessons, the limits and opportunities for WTO reform, and the role of the WTO Secretariat. Harbinson also offers pragmatic insights into dispute settlement, the MPIA, and possible paths forward for preserving the multilateral trading system. Read Stuart’s blog “The WTO in the Age of Trump’s Trade Bullying – Should There Be WTO Reform?“. You can watch a video recording of this conversation here. You can read a transcript of the chat here. Stuart Harbinson had a distinguished career in public service in Hong Kong. From 1994 to 2002 he represented Hong Kong, and then the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of China, in the WTO in Geneva. He subsequently joined the WTO Secretariat as Chief of Staff to Director-General Dr Supachai Panitchpakdi and then became Senior Adviser to Director-General Pascal Lamy. He has rich experience as a former Chairman of a number of WTO bodies, including the TRIPS and Services Councils, and the Dispute Settlement Body. He was Chairman of the WTO’s overarching body, the General Council overseeing preparations for the launch of the Doha round, and of the negotiating group handling the formative stages of the Doha negotiations on agriculture. He has also chaired a number of WTO dispute settlement panels. After leaving the WTO, he worked in the UNCTAD Secretariat and for international law firms in Geneva, and has undertaken several trade-related technical assistance projects. He currently serves as a part time adviser on international trade for Penta Group, the world’s first comprehensive stakeholder solutions firm.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello, everyone and welcome to ESAIP's Global Economy Podcasts.
0:15.8	My name is Frederick Erickson and today I am pleased to welcome Stuart Hubinson to the podcast to talk about
0:23.0	trade, the Trump tariffs, the world trade organizations and discussions about whether the
0:29.3	World Trade Organization can be revived through reform. It is certainly a busy time for trade right
0:36.3	now. We are recording this on July the 4th, which means we are just a few days away from the deadline
0:43.9	that the Trump administration established for new trade negotiations.
0:49.4	So in theory, countries that have not signed new trade agreements with the United States will soon face the full force of the so-called Liberation Day tariffs.
1:00.0	And while some countries seem to have clinched deals with the U.S., many countries have not.
1:05.8	So this is what we're going to talk about today, and there are a few people with so much insight and experience on all matters related to trade as Stuart Harbenson.
1:14.6	We are very proud to have him associated with us as senior fellow.
1:19.6	He has held very many senior positions in the World Trade Organization Secretariat.
1:25.6	And before that, he represented Hong Kong as ambassador to the WTO.
1:31.6	He chaired the General Council of the WTO when it launched the Doha Round. And after leaving the WTO, he moved to
1:40.4	UNCT, where he joined forces again with Dr. Supertai, as he also moved to the UN organization
1:47.3	from the WTO. Stuart, you are very welcome back to the podcast. Thank you very much, Frederick.
1:54.4	And it's a real pleasure to be joining you here today. Well, thank you, Stuart. And we are going to start our
2:03.7	conversation on the basis of an essay that you wrote for us about a week ago and that we also are
2:09.4	going to link to in the show notes. And it's one that I recommend people with an interest in trade
2:13.8	policy to read because it points to a number of issues of growing concern and not just
2:18.8	the Trump tariffs, but let us start with the Trump tariffs. The economic aspects of them are one
2:24.7	part, and of course the entire world has spent a lot of energy discussing them since early April
2:31.2	when the Liberation Day, as it was called, was announced.
	...

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