This is trend following radio where great thinking comes alive.

Nobel Prize winners, legendary traders, bestselling authors, and the pros that know what drive us irrational human beings.

I am your host, Michael Coval, not filtered, raw, honest.

That's my passion.

Now, this conversation is why I do my podcast.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love all my guests.

But it's one of those ones where it's something from perhaps my youth that I was always curious about.

And I never expected to have a conversation with Michael Jordan's personal trainer. In fact, my guest today, his very first pro-athlete client as a trainer was one Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player who has ever played.

And I got to tell you, Tim has some fantastic lessons about life. Even how he made his way to be at Michael Jordan's doorstep,

that very first meeting. Wow. A little bit of luck, but also a lot of taking a chance,

putting himself out there.

And that's just how he got to Jordan.

But those lessons he learned along the way, those winning lessons,

he is here today to share a little with all of us.

Without any further delay, let's jump right into my conversation today with Tim Grover.

You've got about, I think, looking at ages, you've got about four years on me.

So I want to take you back in time. I'm going to go a little fishing years on me. So I want to take you back in time.

I'm going to go a little fishing here in the beginning. I want to take you back at time to 1982. At that point in time, I was living 15 miles in Washington, D.C. I was a rabid Georgetown fan.

My father went to Georgetown, and I sure as heck did not want that team in baby blue to win down at

UNC. I loved watching that guy named Michael Jordan, but I did not want that team to win.

When I think back to the physical shape, and I can still remember, you know, look, he was a young

guy. He was a freshman in college, but the Michael Jordan as a freshman in college was not the one that you ended up remaking physically,

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