This is trend following radio where great thinking comes alive.

Nobel Prize winners, legendary traders, bestselling authors, and the pros that know what drive us irrational human beings.

I am your host, Michael Covel, not filtered, raw, honest.

That's my passion.

So I hold in my hand right now one very interesting book. I did not expect it to be so

interesting because it uncovers something that we think we know that we probably didn't

really know. The book, Madoff talks, uncovering the untold story behind the most notorious Ponzi scheme in history.

My guest today is the author of that book, Jim Campbell.

I take Jim on a whirlwind of all kinds of aspects to this story that you probably didn't know.

I sure as hell did not know.

And I'll tell you one thing.

You don't have to be scared because of this story.

But when you hear the full details, when you hear what was really going on, full system-wide perspective,

you're going to realize this story did not go away with Bernie

Madoff's recent death. It's alive and well. You're just not yet sure what I mean by that.

That's why you're going to listen to Jim Campbell and I talking about the Bernie-Madoff Ponzi scheme.

Without any further delay, let's jump right into my conversation with Jim Campbell.

Jim, my first question is related to something from my world, and you'll see where I'm going really quick.

My first book came out years ago, and the foundation of that first book was me looking at performance reports that occurred in the spring of 1995. And what I was looking at was the performance reports of Bering's Bank's trading account,

which was public. Nick Leeson brought Beringings Bank down and boom, boom, bam, bam,

thank you, ma'am. He's on the front cover of time. It was a zero-sum game and he was trading

Nikk Futures and he lost a bloody fortune. Well, on a zero-sum game, somebody else won. I was looking

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