This is trend following radio where great thinking comes alive.

Nobel Prize winners, legendary traders, bestselling authors, and the pros that know what drive us irrational human beings.

I am your host, Michael Coval, not filtered, raw, honest.

That's my passion.

My guest today is Roger Martin.

He is the professor of strategic management emeritus at the University of Toronto's

Rotman School of Management.

When it comes to management, Roger has all the accolades, often labeled one of the top

management thinkers globally.

Roger's new book, When More is Not Better, Overcoming America's Obsession with Economic Efficiency.

And Roger has a pretty damn big fundamental problem that he sees.

We've treated the economy as a machine pursuing ever greater efficiency as an inherent good. But efficiency has become too much

of a good thing. Look, our obsession with this efficiency, it shifted our economy. We used to have

a large middle class, smaller numbers of rich and poor, like the bell curve. Now it's a thin,

outlier grouping of already super rich getting richer. Now look, I'm the biggest market guy in the

world. I salute Jeff Bezos.

But again, as Roger points out, have we gone too far? Has efficiency pushed us to something that's not sustainable?

Without any further delay, let's jump right into my conversation with Roger Martin.

Roger, you've got right here at the tip of the spear this nice controversial topic that we all are kind of either talking about in our own tribes or yelling at other tribes. We all know there's an issue

and we're not really getting much resolution. It starts with the word capitalism. There is a,

whether one calls themselves liberal or whether one calls themselves conservative or libertarian,

if they're at all honest with themselves, they have to admit we're at a point in time

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