It can be hard, it's a challenging here.

What's beautiful about these lands is not the absence of challenge.

That's like running long, right?

It's not because it's easy. It's that there's a challenge, but you still find a way through. You still find gratitude. Welcome to the trailhead of Trail Runner Nation. It's another week, it's another weekend, and we are here to bring on guests that are going to help us become better runners, faster runners, healthier human beings, and maybe, maybe better human beings. And this one, no doubt about it, we're're gonna talk to the author of Run Like a Real Romery. It's a fantastic discussion. It brings back the passion. Why you started running? Or explain why you're running now. And I'm gonna listen to this one a second time. And don't forget to get yourself a one is greater than nothing trailrunner nation hat at trailrunnernation.com. Clarity on the trail is so important and that's why Tafosi Optics is sponsoring this segment of Clarity on the Trail. We're gonna be sharing Golden Nuggets from you, the listener, will be doing this every week. You share your Golden Nugget. We mention it on the episode and then Tafosi Optics is going to send you a pair of their new Sanctum SL sunglasses. Scott, because we're just kicking this off, I'm gonna provide the first clarity on the trail. My golden nugget, Scott, is decide the night before that you're going to be running. As you put your head on the pillow, make the decision, not when you're supposed to take your head off the pillow to go running. The decision's already made. I'm going to bed. When the alarm goes, I go. No questions asked. That's my golden nugget. Clarity on the trail to focioptix.com. Share your golden nugget on Instagram, tag to focioptix, tag trail runeation, and do the hashtag Clarity on the trail. And hopefully we'll share yours and you'll get a pair of St. Thumb, SL sunglasses. And you can also get 10% off with the code that you can find on our deals page at trailrunnation.com. Welcome to another edition of trail runnation. My name is Don Freeman and I'm Scott Warren.

Today we're joined by Michael Miller. He's the author of Run Like a Raramari. And I always think I'm mispronouncing that. I hope I pronounce that right, Michael. Close enough? Yeah, it's good. Absolutely. And even within like I say, Raramari, and even within the community, there's some they they say is it an L so right I'm a reason that so we're all close it's all great

well it's a book born from the year spent in the Sierra Taramara learning about the Ramley. Now I can't even say you messed me up, Michael. I'll tell you what Raramari stands for. It stands for the running people. And you probably heard about them from the wickedly successful book by Christopher McDougal born to run. And from some of the tales of Michael Truel Caballo Blanco. But in this book, Michael shares stories that go far beyond that book and some of the tales that you've heard. The ultra marathons, it talks about exploring gratitude, resilience, community, and a powerful tenant of Kareema. Is that how you said it, Don? Yeah, Kareema. Kareema. And we're going to get into that. We're really excited to have Michael here. He's actually in this year, Taro Mara right now, because they just finished the ultra-caballo-blanco race. Is that what it's called, right, Michael? It is. It started out when Micah started. It was the copper can in Ultramarathon, but after he passed and has kind of been remembrance and it's really what everybody called it down here anyways. It was renamed officially the Ultramarathon Cabo Blanco. Tell us a little bit about that before we get into the book. How is it different than other Ultramarathons, or is it the same? Yeah, no, I think it's different and I think it's extra special because it is an event where, think Micah said, you know, we come together people from different lands, different cultures, we come together in the bottom of a canyon in the middle of nowhere truly to run together. It's special. The event itself supports the indigenous community, the folks that are from these lands are

Raramri friends, the folks that as you know running is part of their culture.

So all of the local Raramri athletes, they get in free, they get their kit, and importantly they get what's called valleys, which amounts to chits that they can return to get pantry items and foods of this nature. So it is a, I mean, we probably get 800 ramory athletes running mostly the 50 mile and then another 3, 400 runners helping support the community and the 20, 25 different nations. It's a super special event and it's all in support of the celebration of the culture of our Ramri friends here. That's so wonderful. I mean, Ruvamri, the running people, it sounds like as I listen to the story, I think about our sport here locally seems to be running away from that. We seem to be going to the corporate side and what moves the needle there. But what you're discussing is the culture pure as it started for the right reasons. Can you make a comment on that? Yeah, I think that's that's great. I mean, Micah said, and it's to me, it's, I don't know. I may be a little biased with great great is running code ever offered It is he said run free I think it meant a whole lot more than just about running I think kind of just Life in general and how we relate to each other just just kind of you got to let go of some things and we know that's what Running allows that to do and so I think we get up sometimes. We all do, right? We have our watches and our phones and our Stravas and all of these things. And what shoes we're wearing and what's our gear and our kit, our gels and all of these things. The were ramry, our were ramry friends. Truly, they just run. I mean, some maybe are running in modern shoes of which they were probably donated because it's not access here. They're running in the hotcheese. They're running in these plastic jelly slippers. The ladies run in. There's no watches. There's no Strava attached. The fueling for the most part is Pinolet. You know it's what part of their culture. It's raw hand ground maize that's local maize and add a little water and boom and you're good to go out and you go out and run. And I think it's, you know, when we all got started into running, we did it like for lots of reasons, but you got out there and there is this joy and expression, right?

But then we want to get faster and we got all of these things that happen.

And for the raramory, I think there's a wisdom there that there is, that running is,

you know, for them, it's part of their social culture.

It is the way they show resilience.

But more than anything, it's about being together and just connecting with nature.

And so that simplicity, if you will, letting go, being able to just be present in the moment, it helps remind us like, hey, that's why we do this. This is kind of like, it's all that other stuff is okay, right, when we have a purpose. But sometimes it just go out and run free. Just be in that moment, be with your friends, enjoy what you're doing. And I think there's a wisdom and a sharing that culture and when you get that perspective, it's healthy and it's a good thing. I can already tell this is going to be one of my favorite episodes and discussions, Michael. But I would be remiss. I think we're being a little presumptuous that everybody that's listening to this episode knows what we're talking about and has maybe read, born to run, and know about the Raramari people. Tell us a little bit about who these indigenous people are, down in Mexico and the copper canyons of Mexico. Tell us a little bit about Micotru because his story was actually what kind of brought this to light. Give us a short synopsis so that those who have never even heard of Christopher McDougal or his book can have a little bit of context in our discussion as we go forward. Sure., it's actually true. It's funny because all of us guys

that have been running forever think like everybody knows born to run. I mean, there was a time, I think if you ran, you knew born to run and you knew of maybe our folks are were rammery runners here. It's not the case anymore. You know, Louis Asco bar, you know, we all a good friend. He was at a race and he asked people to raise their hand. How many people read the book recently a couple years ago maybe it was and like less than 15% he

said. This kind of new generation. Well, Michael Tru was a special man and we say is kind of part of our nonprofit. He was a simple messenger with a powerful message. He came down to, and I'm going to do a little clarification. The Sierra Taramara, a lot of folks, you hear the copper canyon. I'll call it the Sierra Taramara. Locally it's even called Sierra. So I may slip into just saying Cierra. is part of the Sierra Madre Occidental.

So it's kind of northwest Mexico in the state of Shihuahua, which is more or less directly south where we are in kind of the New Mexico, Texas border. If you would head south into the deepest and widest canyon system in the Americas.

It's a magical land.

So Micah...

Micah, Micah true, Kabai old donkel was inspired by the the Bramory culture when a few came up to run the Leadville 100 back in the 80s and he's like wow and I, and I share this, I think he not only connected with their running, that running was part of their culture and that they ran long and all of that. He also connected with their, I think their way of life. I always hesitate to use the word simplicity because simplicity can imply that it's basic or things of that issue, other than necessarily that's correct, but a chosen, a chosen simple life where there's this perspective about what's important. I think he identified that with that, that culture, so not just the running and the whole running is definitely the tenant of the culture, but he identified that with that culture. So not just the running.

And the whole running is definitely the tenant of the culture. But he identified with how they lived, how they cared for each other, how they put relationships and how they put the planet in those things first, before all the other things, right? Things are just things. So he identified with that. So it started with, after Leadville, he paced one of the athletes in the Hunter Mile and he came on down here, collected some coats, came on down, distributed some winter coats because high up in this year, I can get cold in the winners. And the canyons it rarely gets cold, but he distributed some coats. He ran around a little bit and

he fell in love with the lands. I mean the topography here, the beauty of the trails everywhere. There wasn't roads. This is how the Rammory connect. This is the running, right? So there's trails everywhere. So he ran trails and he sat around these majestic lands and these views and he fell in love with the culture. And he wanted to do something to give back, I think, to all, he was grateful for what that brought him, right? There's this happiness, this joy that's going on. Well, he also saw that the roads were coming in and different things and maybe that modern world and cell phones, things of this nature were happening. So worrying about the culture, right? Is that running culture gonna continue? So how can I both honor and celebrate this community and their running culture and also maybe help ensure that that always remains, right? The children are there and the continues. So he started the race and he invited some folks. And he started in 2003. We just had our 23rd anniversary of the Ultramarathon Caballo Blanco. And when he started it, I think that first run in 2003 was seven runners. And we just had what, you know, over a thousand, thousand so things have changed and in Three years after he started in 2006 gentlemen Christopher McDougal Of course a great writer. We all a lot of us know now good good man incredible storyteller And a couple other great athletes including Scott jury who at the time was the world's greatest endurance athlete you know all the Western states wins hard rock bad water all these things somehow he talks Scott into coming down here and a couple other crazy characters and I think Scott also had heard from Micah so he got that that connection you know that Yeah, that's it. You know, Scott had won all these races, right? He's been to Spartathalon, he's done everything. But it was like, okay, I want that reminder why I do this, right? And I think he found it as well. So these guys come on down to run this race in 2006 and Christopher tells the story about it along with some other things. And he writes a book called Born to Run and it was published in 2009, became a worldwide best seller, I don't know, three million plus copies, a zillion languages and inspired a generation or two to get out and run long. And all of the things that that can do in our personal lives, you know, and just, I mean, we all know, running makes for better humans. And so it did a lot to, I think it contributed a lot of things. And it also introduced our Rammory friends to the world and it introduced their running culture. It's been a big part of our lives and a lot of my friends lives. And I've got a whole lot more people that I will love forever in my life because of that story and that told in Micah and all of those characters that are all family as well, part of that book. So get the book if you haven't read it because it's really good. Even if you're not a runner, it's a great book to read because of the way that Christopher tells these stories of all the characters. Tell us why are they called the running people? Yeah, because I think because it's so such a tenant in their culture. So I think the first thing that I would say is that it is... Let me make this statement too. I think if Chris would be here, because I think this is important and it's something that I share in my book. If Chris had been here a little longer, we wouldn't all know born to run. We would know born to run together because I think he would have named the book born to run together. If he just had a little more time because that's what goes on here and that's why the ramry are the running people because it is part of their social fabric, their social culture. So traditional racing is not like we think of like competitive, you have a distance and you go out and run that distance and there's a winner or the fastest runner. That is not what is part of their culture. They have two games, Robert Heeper and Rowena. And most people maybe know Rowena as Ariweta, which is actually the hoop. But Robert Heepere, the males play it, even the females play it as well. And then the females play the Rowera. Robert Heepere is basically you have a ball, a bowl about this big made of a hardwood that will get locally and you get anywhere between, it can be as little as maybe four on up to 12 perhaps, people on a team and they will pick a course and let's say it's going to be just for an example a 5K, a 3 mile loop and they'll decide how many loops are going to be just for an example, a 5K, a 3 mile loop.

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