Alright Ian, you're gonna come strong with no pain, no gain, we're ultra-runners and

if it doesn't hurt, then it's not worth it.

You can rest when you die.

I'm not gonna go gains it.

Each person is a unique individual, so what works for me may not work for someone else,

and that's a beauty of being a good coach and well-rounded coach is to figure out what

that person needs, despite what you believe. Thanks for joining another edition of Trail Runner Nation. We go on virtual trail runs every week with you and we have a good group that is joining us on today's run. They're gonna help us become better runners, understand how to be healthier athletes, and hopefully better human beings. Now, if you're opinionated, or you know somebody who's opinionated, you wanna listen to this episode, point, counter point, where we discuss both sides of some of the most controversial trail and ultra running topics. Welcome to another edition of trail runner nation. My name is Scott war and Don Freeman is absent. He has not shown up for the podcast. Actually, we knew he wasn't. He's busy trying to make money in the world of employment and isn't able to join us today. But we thought it was okay because we're going to have four guests with us today. This is a point counterpoint episode. And we did one probably a couple months ago was our voyage into the point counterpoint. We thought it would be a fun episode. Mostly because every once in a while we we get a comment on trail run or nation where somebody says, that last guest that you had on there, they're up in the night. That stuff that they're talking about, that is so wrong and they're very opinionated against what we're talking about. Now, trail run or nation from the very beginning, 15 years ago. We've always said, we're not

advocating anything. We invite guests on that can maybe help us learn to be better runners and what they're doing may or may not help you. The experiment of one is the most important thing you can do here. And this is a place where we're sharing ideas. And then you try See if it works it works for you. And if it does, great, if it doesn't move on. And with that theme, Don and I were thinking on a trail run one day, hey, let's bring people on. Let's talk about some important trail topics. But then have these smart people argue, you know, do like the high school debate club where they argue one side or the other.

Now the key to this is each team may or may not agree with the point that they're taking, the side of the argument that they're taking, but they're going to do their darnest to make the case of their point or their counterpoint. Now we have a couple of different teams here. We have teams of coaches from Charmin Ultras.

We have Ian Char different teams here. We have teams of coaches from Charmin Ultras. We have Ian, Charmin, and Annie Hughes. And from Gideop Ultras, we have Jeff Browning and Trish Ayrins. And in order to introduce them, I thought we would have a little bit of fun here and have each of them introduce each other with a bit of tidbit or a fact that maybe you can't find on the internet about these people because they're pretty famous. They're in fact there are celebrities in a lot of circles. So let's start with Jeff. Let's start with you. What's a tidbit about Trish that nobody knows or most people don't know? She went on a scholarship for golf to college. No way. Yeah. That paid for your education, Trish? Well, here's the thing. I had a scholarship to, oh my God, a university in Illinois. And I went there to visit, did my whole campus visit, thought I was gonna go there, and left there until I met my parents. No. And so then I ended up talking to Illinois State University. They didn't help as much as I would have had, but I was closer to home and it was only 18,000 people instead of like 40,000. And so did any thoughts of ever going pro? Were you good? So good enough to get a scholarship. Yeah. I had people tell me to keep playing, but you know when you you just don't love something that requires that much practice, because you have to practice with golf, you're not going to be any good. I'm fine not playing and I'd rather go run for four hours and play around a golf. All right, Trish. Let's go the other way. What do you know about Jeff that people typically don't know? Well, this is interesting. So in 2010, Jeff got clawed by an owl. So I'll let him tell you the story, but that should lead you into something interesting. Yeah. I got clawed in the back of the head by a territorial owl, a barred owl to be accurate. They're very territorial around their nest. I'm not the only one that got clawed. Another guy got clogged in the back of the head and drew blood. I thought I drew blood. I was touching my head and going, what the heck? But as it flew, first I did a drive-by on me. So it flew over my head about three feet. It landed in a tree. You know, textbook out. Big eyes just sitting there looking at I thought was the the coolest thing ever it's like 20 feet up in a tree on a branch

I was evening is right going into the dark, but it was still light out and I was like wow That's really cool and I was like at the time I had young kids and I was reading PD Eastman Which is like another pin named for Dr. Seuss and he had a book called Sam in the Firefly and Sam is a an owl that comes out every night and he wants to play but the hogs asleep the dogs asleep and so you know

it hit him and a Firefly get into Miss Ja. So we were reading that book as my kids favorite book at the time. So the first thing that pops into my head is Sam and the Firefly and his catchphrase every night when he comes out is like who wants to play. So I'm hiking up the thing and the first thing on my head go, who wants to play? So I say this to the owl. And I think it's really witty. And I'm laughing to myself as I walk by its position. And as soon as I turn my back on it, it swoops down and tags me in the back of the head with its talons. And I'm like, oh, chin to the chest. the chest, like, what the, you know, I thought it took my head lamp.

I was like, check it for my head lamp.

I was like, in it sweeps up and like lands in a tree.

I was like, oh, you know, I'm not like turning my back

on you again, you know?

So I like, I take a handful, I'm on a gravel road climb. I'm taking a handful of gravel.

I kind of throw it in my direction.

It like pegs the tree.

I'm like, I'm talking to you.

I'm talking to you.

I'm talking to you.

...