Many people are disconnected because they're always on their phone.

And then it's like on the other end of the spectrum, it's like you can be very present.

And so it's like what can you do, kind of, to find that right balance in between.

But I truly think like the more present you can be, the more in tune you become with

your body and mind, and it will indirectly improve your running as well. Welcome to the Trailhead of Trail Runners Nation. Every week we go on trail runs, we invite you to join us along the way. We have guests that are going to help us learn more about running, teaches how to be better at it, enjoy it more, and hopefully that translates in us being better human beings. We're going to talk to our friend, Flores Gehrman, about the joy of running on, and off the trail. Need a reminder, the Progress Beats Perfection trail runnation. One is greater than zero running hat during our 24-hour Black Friday sale. That's this Friday, November 21st, until midnight Pacific Standard Time. Get yours at trailrunnation.com. Hey, Don, quick question. When's the last time you replace those beaten up old tights? I think these babies have seen more miles than my car. Well, good news. Our friendship, John G are making it easy right now to upgrade. John G's Black Friday sale runs November 17th through December 1st, up to 30% off. On jackets, shorts, tides, even the stuff I probably don't need but really want. And if you're not a member yet, you can join right on their site. It's free. That includes favorites like the women's pay shorts, men half trail tides, and trail tides for both women and men. Perfect timing for winter training

or gifting your favorite trail partner. And the bonus for trail runner-nation listeners get 10% off your order with the code trail runner. Check it all out at johng.com and run Maaah!

Welcome to another edition of Trail Rene Nation. My name is Don Freeman. I am Scott War. Run, ma.

Welcome to another edition of Trail Run or Nation. My name is Don Freeman.

I'm Scott War.

And today we're, this is gonna be a fun one

because we have a friend that's come on

and it's always fun to talk with friends,

especially if you're making running motions.

But we were thinking the other day,

how can you find more joy in running?

That's been kind of a theme that I've had in my mind for at least the last year or so. How can I find more joy in running? How can I be more consistent in my activity and my indigent in getting out there? And how do I improve my overall health? Those questions, we're going to answer today with a friend of ours, Flores Gariman, who just wrote a book called Running Breakthroughs. It's a new book that he's written and it's actually an interesting book. I'm going to have him explain why he thinks he wrote it and why I think it's important or interesting and different from other books. It includes years of conversations with runners, coaches, and health experts, and it distills some of the habits, the mindset, the small changes that lead to these lasting improvements. In a world full of running books and trail advice, this one we think kind of stands out for its focus on its sustainability and joy and just basic tips and tricks that you can easily digest and implement into your daily running. Behind me is a bookshelf and I bet you I have a hundred books, a hundred running books. There may be more than that, but books that we've reviewed on the podcast, books that we've read, why did you decide in your many activities in running as a coach, as a podcaster, as a manufacturer of quality running gear? Why did you think I should write a book about running? That's a great question right there. For me, like, so the book is called Running Breakthroughs, and that is really what I experienced at several different chapters in my life. Like when I first started running, I just ran and very often I would kill myself in my runs. Sometimes I enjoy with it, but sometimes it was very much suffering and I didn't really enjoy it that much. I got injured quite a bit. Sometimes I would come back from a run and I feel completely exhausted or just didn't have any energy left to like, I would just be laying on the couch for the rest of the day. Flores, I've got to jump in and ask, so why did you even start running? I mean, that sounds agonizing. What made you do it again? That was some joy in it as well. There was just like this in-between of like, there were moments of joy, but there was also quite a bit of like challenges along the way with, in particular, even like injuries, I would get sight lined quite a bit with just different injuries along the way. Funny enough, in 2007 I ran my first marathon and I swore I would never do it again. I thought I was going to die, mild 20, the typical like death march, like bagging some on for a gatorade on the side of the course and slugging to the finish line. And sure enough, I didn't run a marathon for another seven years. But then 2013, I joined a group running coaching program at Coach Jimmy Dean in Los Angeles, the Coyotes, and very early on, interestingly enough, I got introduced to your guys' podcast. And this is when I was one conversation with Dr. Phil Mephotone about slow down to speed up. And this changed everything for me as in my entire approach of, you don't have to kill yourself in workouts to improve. You can actually find joy in the moment of slowing down, actually being much more present to look around yourself and get more in tune with your body and in tune with your mind. And from there on, things started to click. And then like I ran my first marathon in four hours, eleven. I ran my second in two hours, fifty five minutes. Wow. And so that was not only time-wise a huge improvement, but it also felt like I discovered this entire new way of running that I didn't even know existed. And so after that, I had my own little YouTube channel at the time already. I just wanted to tell the world about this. And so first I interviewed Dr. Phil Mephaton and then Mark Ellen, Six Time World Champion Iron Man. And then I just started interviewing a bunch of recreational runners that also experience similar things. And over the years, I had like hundreds and hundreds of stories of breakthroughs from people, not just with the slow down to speed up, but through a variety of other ways that I really wrote this book as it was the book that I wish I would have read earlier on in my running journey to like discover this nice gentle way of training that has so much joy along the way. And interestingly enough, through all these conversations with elite athletes, with experts, and even recreational athletes, there were some common threats. And one of the main ones goes back to what you're just talking about, Scott. It's like finding joy,

finding ways to train consistent. That doesn't always mean pushing yourself harder in every workout, but it also means slowing down from time to time. And that means like listening a day to day instead of being so glued to one specific training schedule there. So what I am understanding from that explanation, Flores, is this book is the book that you wish you had in 2007 or prior to that as you were training for your first marathon. So it's it's it may be a little bit of a memoir, if you will, of things that you've learned and things that you've heard and heard other people learn to help them become better, enjoy running better and find joy in running. Absolutely. And the interesting thing is, even 10 years off, I discovered is there were still different ways that I learned new drawers on new levels of running that I didn't know existed. As in, initially, I was very time focused. Not just in road running, even on trail running, I was still very much pushing pays, looking at placement of races and different things. To a point that at one point I learned how to, I discovered another gentleman named Lawrence Van Lingen. He's a movement specialist from South Africa. And he started talking about the flow rope, which is like this rope that you can use to flow backwards. And you really become in tune with your body much more. And there's a lot of people who grab a rope and who think about flowing it backwards, but the only way that they're able to swing it is forward. And it's a neurological wiring thing where once you learn how to properly backward swing it, it completely gets your chest in flow, your body just starts moving much more with fluidity. And when I discovered this, like being able to run with an open chest, literally like my shoulders would open up more. And I would like, like, it's an interesting way to discover additional ways that as much as I thought after 10 years of improving in my running and my time to drop, my enjoyment in running had dropped. This was a whole not a level that I didn't even know existed. And so it was through a combination of the flow rope, there was some backwards walking in there, and a few other mobility exercises that really I felt that calm the nervous system. And I think especially in today's, everyone has constantly glued to their phone. Everyone is constantly on the go-go-go. To be able to calm the nervous system as a really indirect benefit to your running as well. It's not just focused on the running. But there's so many other benefits is once we start paying close attention to how we show up in the daily life with stress management, how we show up from like a nutrition standpoint, from a sleep standpoint. And I started paying like not only more attention to the running, but so many of these other areas that really helped improve the joy in running. Well, that's, you know, I have a couple questions. Scott and I won't hog the podcast, because I have a lot of them But I'm going to start with this one. When you stay slow down, what are we talking about?

When you say slow, help to find what that means for the rest of us, slowing down 50%. I'll let you take it. That's quite a few runners that run in this middle zone to high zone. It's zone three, zone four, possibly even higher than that. When you come back from a run and you finish and you feel like you could have gone quite a bit longer. You felt like you could have gone

harder. zone four, possibly even higher than that. When you come back from a run and you finish and you feel like you could have gone quite a bit longer, you felt like you could have gone harder, you could have done that same run again. Those are good signs. And I think there's a variety of different ways that you can calculate what your zone two would be. You guys have had Dr. Phil Mephaton on there, 180 minus your age with some fitness adjustment, That's one way of going about it. You can look at what is your max heart rate? What is your resting heart rate and you could put it in one of the heart rate calculators online and that give you a breakdown of zones But for those who don't even have an heart rate monitor just being able to go out on a conversational pace or one nasal breathing Those are pretty good indicators that you're running at a low enough intensity. If you're able to have a conversation with a friend and you can just do that comfortable without huffing and puffing and having to catch on sentences, those are good signs. Yet many runners are way above that. In particular, even if you go on group runs or if you go on the trails, in the beginning, there's quite a few people have to get used to that. So yeah, there's a few different ways of going about it, but I think just most people have to slow down significantly, I would say, by 20, 30, 40%. And it might feel like like a walk. And there's quite a few people have to start out with walking. But you will be surprised if you do that for one month or two month that your pace at the same heart rate is going to improve by 30 seconds, 60 seconds or even more per mile. So, Flores and your experience, because as you said this, I really hadn't thought of it, do you think a way to check in to see if you're running, quote, unquote slow enough, should you be able to keep your pace just nasal breathing only? Is it possible to run with nasal breathing only as your way to measure your effort? The nasal breathing is an interesting one because most people have a different nostril size of the say that, but also altitude comes into play a little bit over here. Naisal breathing in Boulder at 7,000 foot or 8,000 foot would be different than nasal breathing here in Irvine at sea level. That being said, I think it's a ballpark indication of like, yeah, you're running at a low enough intensity. That being said, I've had Dr doctor or I've had Danny Dreyer from Chi running on my podcast and he talked Yeah, you can run a marathon while nasal breathing And I was like that's BS that's not possible sure enough once I started training by doing higher intensity runs with nasal breathing and Even putting a nasal dial later on so opening the nostrils a bit further. I was able to run with nasal breathing at 160 heart rate. Oh, and so this is something I first didn't believe was possible, but there are ways that you can train that. So I don't think nasal breathing is necessarily always the best way about that. And what you will know is is if you're doing high intensity with nasal breathing, your blood oxygen levels are going to go down. Like if you use like a blood oxygen meter on your finger and you look at it, normally it would be like 98, 99 that will drop down quite a bit. So it's, it's not very comfortable to do. Flores, you mentioned that you joined the SoCal coyotes, Jimmy Dean Freeman's running group down there and And I've never run with the group, but this is the way I envision that group to be. You show up early in the morning or whenever you show up. And there are people that are wearing really short dolphin shorts, and they have their singlet on. And when Jimmy says, okay, let's go, it's a competition. How do you, what are some tips that you have for listeners that are going to group runs to keep their intensity low? It's very easy to get into that race mentality when I want to go run with this person over here Because I want to talk to them during the run today. How do you force yourself? Hey before we start with that Flores I think you know for for the coyotes maybe we should clarify is it really Dolphin shorts singlets and and a gun that goes off at the beginning of the run Well, that's what I wanted to say. First of all, I think there's this perception sometimes for people who might not be that familiar with trial running groups or with even running groups in general of like, it can be intimidating. It can be like a step into the unknown. For me, the first run when I showed up over there, I haven't done some road running, going over there, I literally showed up at the trails. I had no idea what to think about trail running even. I was wearing a marathon belt with a bunch of little bottles on the side and it was one of those. And I showed up at the coyotes and I was like, yeah, I'm here for the run. And everyone had these cool handheld bottles and they had packs and all that stuff. And so I think as you go through, You end up learning what works and what might not work, but everyone is super welcoming,

everyone is super open arms over there One of the first thing you will notice is that people care much less about pace on the trails than they do on road And walking is totally normal And I feel that part of realizing them when you're walking you're training too It's nothing you're not doing Literally walking is part of trail running. And so you like you guys honestly said in in our podcast conversation that we recorded that's in the book as well. You guys talked about adjusting your pace but your intensity stays the same. So you really just adjust them whether you're running eight minute miles or whether you're running 14 minute miles like it, no, what are you hiking for, 10 minute miles? Obviously, the book is called Running Breakthroughs. And you mentioned one of the first breakthroughs that you had by slowing down to speed up. What is the last breakthrough that you've had? The most recent breakthrough. I would say the biggest one for me was when I started really playing around with the nervous system and calming that down completely. Even though I thought I was a relative calm person, I realized how much tension I was still holding in the body. And so I've literally had moments of absolute joy and emotional, literally like crying on my runs, which normally only happens to me after a hard, hard finish at a race through the finish line. Sometimes I get emotional. It just like the onions are peeled raw and it just comes out. But if you end up going out on a run and you run at a relative comfortable pace, but it feels so joyous. It feels so like in flow that this pent up tension or I don't know what it was. All of a sudden just came out. I think this is where, to me, that really happened through three main exercise that I just started doing on a very daily basis. And that was through, like I think I should explain that flow rope a little bit better, because I think it is being one of the, like I didn't interview it. Lauren's been linking on my podcast and on my YouTube channel as well. And there were literally hundreds of people in the comments who experienced similar things while using the flow rope. And so by the way, I'll enter you guys after this because I truly believe you guys should have a conversation with Laurence at some point as well. Thank you. Yeah. He's a dear friend. And he also wrote the four actually for the book. And the way that he impacted my life similar to Dr. Phil Maffone, is just I wanted that to get out in the world. And so the main thing with the flow rope really is it restores your natural movement and your rhythm, like improves your posture and your facial balance. And like you really feel that your entire body is just more connected. You start moving from your core and from your hips rather than all these isolated body parts. And it really promotes that relaxation and the flow state. And when you start feeling that, when you start literally feeling like your hard rate variability calms down, like your hard rate variability improves, your lactate levels build up less. So Lawrence, he works directly together with Taylor Nip and with several other world class elite athletes. That's one of the main focuses is just calm the nervous system. And that can be done through a variety of ways. But for me,

that was like grabbing one of these flow ropes backwards swinging it for five minutes a day. And you will start noticing more fluidity in your running. If you then add a few minutes of backwards walking on top of that, and then there's like a third exercise, which is called the the awesomeizer.

Dr. Marguerca-Zellie, he talks about the awesomeizer as well, but it truly helps open up your hips and you start using your glutes much more. Once you do that, and you just feel like it's a different way of running. Yeah, the power to propel us down the trail doesn't necessarily happen in the calves and calves and the in the hamstrings and quadriceps It's really in the torsion of your body your hips going on way your torso going the other and the rest The legs are just catching this power that you're creating with your torque of your own body And that's what you're capturing with your with your engine that you're describing in this. Yeah, exactly. And so it's one of those things. Like Taylor and Nibb, she was like world champion in the triathlon multiple times. When I sat down for a conversation with her, she specifically said she started. She used to rush through things in the day a lot. And then all of a sudden, she started really taking her time. So instead of always feeling like you're running late, started leaving five minutes, 10 minutes earlier. And so that you always feel that you have enough time. And I'm guilty of that myself. I often feel like, it's cool, school drop off to the kids. And then it's to the the offers and then recording a podcast and then it's like you're constantly on the go-go-go. Whereas even for everyone, listen here, if you were five minutes to ten minutes earlier, if you can, leave and have that little buffering between, you feel less rushed, it calms your nervous system. Take three times a day, one minute, just one minute to sit down and check in with yourself and do a few deep breaths, inhales and exhales. You would be surprised what these things will do to your nervous system and how that will actually directly and indirectly impact your quality of your sleep, your joy and running, you just end up becoming more present. And I think it's the opposite. I see many people are disconnected because they're always on their phone. And then it's like on the other end of the spectrum, it's like you can be very present. And so it's like what can you do, kind of to find that right balance in between. But I truly think like the more present you can be, the more in tune you become with your body and mind, and it will indirectly improve your running as well. Scott, I need to make a request. I don't have a hand that can reach over to your reek of button. Reek of! But that is such a great point. In running, we can find ways that it translates into or transforms into our life. Like we learned it on the trail, but it relates to our life as well. And you just described it perfectly. There's flow running, but there's flow life as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, that does a variety of different ways that you can do that. I think it's so easy for our brains to go a million miles an hour when you're running as well versus the more we... I've truly noticed when I slow down in my running, I'm able to look around more. I can see things that I previously haven't seen before. It's purely by slowing down a little bit. But the interesting thing is, it's quite a few people who think when you run slow, you're going to be running slow forever. Or running slow is not enjoyable. But you will be surprised at when you actually slow down in your training for a while that you will start improving aerobically. And it's this balance. You don't have to always run slow.

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