I think that's part of our job as coaches,

just to really guide them through that in very clear terms.

I know it's not invoting for though.

And I'm not going to be on the fence on this one.

Ian can start dancing right now.

I will say the common theme that I've already seen with both of the first two topics is,

boy, how valuable is having a coach? [♪ music playing in background, welcome to the Trailhead of Trail Runner Nation. This is the place you want to be if you want to go on a virtual trail run and learn how to be a better runner, a healthier athlete and maybe a better human being and it's got today We're gonna have a little debate a debate on the trail very healthy We're gonna take a position and argue it against the other side and we have four experts playing game. And if you haven't stopped by the TrailRunnerNation site, do so on the very first screen that you'll open. It has the new TrailRunnerNation. One is greater than zero hats. One is greater than zero. What are you talking about, Scott? Well, it's more than just a really, really

good running hat. It's also a motivation. Put it by your door and it'll remind you that doing something today is better than doing nothing going out and walking around the block is better than sitting on the couch eating Cheetos. Get yours at trailrunnernation.com. Hey Scott, you know the feeling when the weather turns and you realize that your running gear is still stuck in summer mode. Yeah, that first cold rain or wind gust that makes you say, I should have checked out my John G. Winter gear. Exactly. John G. Just dropped your winter kit upgraded lineup. We're talking about running tights and pants like the Borrio fleece tight for cozy warmth or the trail tight for all season versatility. And for the top half of your body, I'm loving the Aura's Ultra fleece hoodie. It's like running in a cloud that actually breathes. Or when the sky's open up, the rain runner pack jacket, it keeps you dry without slowing you down. Hey, it's hard enough out there without having the right gear and that's where John G comes in. Don't forget the details like the gloves, the beanies and the brand new thermal runner insulated cap. That's perfect for frosty mornings. You can find it on all of John G's weather ready gear at JohnG.com. And as a bonus for trail runner-nation listeners, get 10% off your order with a code trail runner. Welcome to another edition of trail runner-nation. My name is Don Freeman and I'm Scott War and we've been doing this podcast now for 14 or some odd years. I think 750 plus episodes. And every once in a while, we get an email or a complaint that says, how come you guys are so passionate about this one side of a topic? You never, you never talk about both sides of the topic. And those are typically people that haven't listened to the podcast very much because we always, or at least we try to say always, we believe in the experiment of one. We're bringing people on that may have an idea or a philosophy. If it sounds like it resonates with you, go ahead and try it. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. So what we are decided the other day is Don and I were on a run and we were talking about this and we thought he wouldn't be fun if we forced a debate. We pick some topics and have some experienced knowledgeable running coaches come on and we have them debate each side of an issue. And so that's what we've created. I think Don, you coined the term point counterpoint. Is that what you call it? No, I stole that from an old 60 minutes segment they used to have point counterpoint. I kind of brought it forward to this. But here's the crazy thing about this. One side of the team may not even like their side of the argument, but they're going to be forced to represent. And, you know, and it might be kind of fun to play at home too, which side do you like? And at the end, we're going to vote. We're going to vote after they're done having their discussion and their debate. Which side is the strongest? And here's what I anticipate. This is all projection. I think that the team that doesn't like their position might even vote for the other team. Like, you know what? I had to represent this side, but I do not agree with it. I really like the side the other team had. I'm voting for them. So it's good. I think this is gonna be fun. course. Of course, I've been wrong before. And our team is comprised of two coaching services, Sharman Ultra. We have Ian Sharman and Ellie Greenwood, who is going to represent the Sharman Ultra and we have from Gideop Ultra. We have Jeff Browning and Trish Arons who are gonna join us for team giddy up now in order for you to get to know them a little bit We've told them that they had to come with an admiring quality of their teammate. So let's uh, oh go ahead Don It just got in fairness. You gave that assignment to him like three minutes ago.

So this is very cool.

So like last week, you let him know this was gonna happen.

So this is right, this is cold.

Let's see how it comes out.

Let's start with Sharma and Ultra.

Ellie, tell us something you admire about Ian

and then Ian you tell us something you admire about Ellie.

Well I admire Ian so much that I easily came up with two points so I will cover them both. Oh. Oh, both directly related to running. Ian's very good at being disciplined in like prep races like this is a marathon that I'm preparing for 100 mile and so I'm going at this pace even though I could go a lot faster. So he's got a plan and he will stick to it kind of person and then his enthusiasm for all sorts of running like I think Ian was at the track and field champs in Eugene maybe this summer and then he's done marathon to sub and he'll throw in like Turkey truck 10k and then a hundred mile trail race. And you know, I'm sure he and maybe does, but I don't even know really what's the in his favorite and maybe he doesn't have one. So yeah, the enthusiasm for all disciplines of running and not just getting down one rabbit hole of, you know, 100 mile trail races are the only good thing about running or racing. Mmm. Sounds like a nice guy.

He's a great guy.

Okay, Ian.

Okay, well, you realize that we're also team UKX-Pats and so this is incredibly awkward to do this kind of thing. So thank you very much, Ellie. I would say for Ellie, it's not that similar because I know Nelly, I don't know what, 15 years, I think I've met her for the first time at comrades in South Africa, not even

close to where we live.

But Ellie loves running so much. It is such a big part of her life. And even within juries and recent years, now she still gets to be part of the volunteer community. She coaches people. She turns up to races. She does a little work in a running store. So it's just how enthusiastic Ellie is about running in general and how much value she sees in her own life with it, but also with everyone else around her. Well done, well done. Jeff, tell something that you admire about Trish and then Trish, you can try the same thing with Jeff. I know that you have the biggest tilde climb Trish. Okay, so mine, Trish and I both come from the Midwest. We have that in common. We both obviously are runners, so I'm not gonna say anything about the running part of things, but I will bring up the other parts of what I consider to be good performance and where we are very much aligned. And I really respect in her and one of the reasons I brought her on as a coach. Her dedication, one, one she's a PT and her dedication to proper movement patterns and technique and form, I think is stands above most coaches and I really respect that inner and also we we both very much align on nutrition as well. So she kind of follows a similar approach that I do more of an ancestral type of diet. So in our lifestyles, so we are two peas in a pod when it comes to that. Very nice. And Trish, you're in a good spot because No one can come back at you. You have the final say.

It's funny because I wrote down dedication for Jeff and he started off kind of similarly, but we actually met randomly at a Midwest race. I think it was Ozark foothills, crazy enough. But he practices what he preaches in all areas. So you're not getting someone just talking at you. You're watching him. And that's just a big thing to me to see as a runner and not only that as a coach. And I know that if I have a question, he's not going to give me this one word answer. I will get emails, links. It's like a thorough everything from him. It doesn't matter if it's nutrition or running or life. And I think that's a well-rounded coach right there. Hey, Ryan, I just saw something we may have considered before this. We may have to have a time limit buzzer for Jeff when he does his rebottle. All right. So Dawn was very creative and he came up with a bunch of topics and then we chose from those topics what we were going to do. What's the first topic, Dawn? Oh, you want me to read that off? Okay. The first topic is a team giddy up. I'm going to go to team giddy up and Jeff, for your team, since you're the head coach over there, pick one of the subjects that you elected to argue here and enforce the other side to take the opposition. What do you think you'll shine strong? So I'd like to pick gadgets. I want to pick, I'm four gadgets. So the topic is what, whether gadgets are better or whether going by feel is better, right? Those are the two sides. Yeah, technology on the trail. Okay, give us your best argument. I think, okay, one, I mean, these are pretty obvious, right, we're coaches, we like data. So this one's an easy one. Especially nowadays, you know, I've been in this sport for 25 years. I came to it when we had time X's and written logs and writing our, you know, I used to ride my mountain bike with a bike computer that measured the wheel circumference. So I'd know that, okay, that route's 7.2 miles. You know, I'd have to go ride on my mountain bike and then I know I could put it in my training log at 7.2 miles. You didn't just have this nice little handy dandy gadget on your wrist to tell you exactly

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