Very grateful for the jury, for their, you know, they've worked so diligently, they've listened so well and that they found more failings than we thought that we would get.

And it's, I can't even begin to express my grief and my gratitude at the same time, it's, I'm just overwhelmed.

As far as we're concerned, Mary's murder is much the thought of Essex Police as the murderer himself.

The level of incompetence, the lack of basics policing, the failure to communicate key information, words simply fail us.

Change at a local level is promised. We'll wait to see if it translates into change on the ground.

But even if it does, change at a local level is not enough.

Hey, lovely listeners and welcome back to Crime Analyst and the Intelligence Cell.

This week I'm really privileged to be joined by Manuel Fernandez, Maria's brother, Bengi Stubbing's Maria's son and Celia Maria's daughter.

We had a very honest, candid and courageous interview about Maria's murder in the aftermath and you'll hear this interview in two parts and let me just start by saying that it's not an easy listen.

And so our heads up before the episode begins, Bengi had a trauma-related reaction in the interview.

It was unexpected and it was upsetting and we, well, actually I'm not going to say anything more about it because you'll hear what happened in the actual episode.

But what I will say is that trauma resides on a cellular level in our bodies. The body keeps the score.

Remember Bessel Vanderkulks spoke that I've referenced before. You see, we don't always know when we might be triggered or activated, even when we feel we're prepared to meet a challenge.

But what I will say is that this is a real life consequence and it came up 14 years on. You see, these are real and authentic conversations.

So Bengi and I agreed that we'd keep it in because if it helps one person, then it's worth it. Listen to discretion is advised. You may find this episode triggering and I'm sure you'll find that angry making.

Okay, so if you're ready, let's jump into the interview.

Hi, Celia, Manuel and Bengi. It's really good to have you here on Crime Analyst and I'm not going to say I'm excited about this interview because excited is the wrong word.

I feel very heavy-hearted but I am excited about just some of the things for the learning that I know that the three of you are really keen that people understand the learning from what happened to Maria.

So perhaps let's start with just hearing from each of you Manuel and Bengi. If you want to say something about Maria before we talk about really what happened and what some of the key learning points are, then well, do you want to start off?

Hi Laura, lovely to be on your program. Maria was obviously my sister. I'm the youngest of four children and in many respects growing up, my sister was more or less my son or a bit mother because we were...

you know, single parent family, my father had left for us quite young. My sister and I grew an exceptionally strong bond because we were always together.

She was always my babysitter and care. When I joined the army and returned from the army, I actually even lived with her for a while before I found my feet back in civilian street.

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