This is Trend Following Radio, where great thinking comes alive.

Nobel Prize winners, legendary traders, bestselling authors, and the pros that know what drive us irrational human beings.

I am your host, Michael Covel.

Not filtered, raw, honest.

That's my passion.

My guest today is Annie Duke.

This is Annie's second appearance on my show. I have to really thank her,

and I thank her in the show as well. But the recent Wall Street Journal review of my podcast

featured a synopsis of my first interview with Annie. So I really, really appreciate that.

She brings something that people

just love. Poker player, author, decision-making expert, essentially cognitive scientist,

Annie's foundation, her way that she goes through the world, her understanding of making the right

decision, understanding how luck, skill, uncertainty, all interplay, understanding that she needs

to have that expected value.

And that it's all about process, not just outcomes alone.

I hope you enjoy this conversation with Annie Duke.

Annie, not to get all political on you, but I saw this great piece of insight that you had that just happened to use a current modern day political character.

That would be Donald Trump.

I thought the interesting thing about it was that,

you know, I don't know your politics, and frankly, it's not relevant for the point that you

were trying to make, which is that for his cabinet picks, he went very aggressive. I was thinking

about the word aggressive, and I kind of was looking at some of them myself, and basically they

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