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And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN Audio, the Ax Files, with your host David Axelrod.

One of the heroes of last year's Biden campaign was a name you may not know, but he's one of America's great pollsters and strategists.

And part of what makes John Anceloni so good at what he does is his own rich story.

I sat down with him yesterday and had a conversation about that in American politics today. Here it is.

John Anceloni, I think that full disclosure is necessary here. We're very long and old friends.

So if I call you Ancel throughout this conversation, people will understand.

I'm not getting an important intern or anything, but no, I would listen. I've been somewhat reflective this week.

No one I was going to do this because if you remember, we first met when I was a literally a senior in college.

David Wilhelm introduced us.

Yes.

You know, you you guys were just coming off that 84 big, big, big, for Paul Simon.

He sent me out in 1986 and I spent a weekend with you in force Claypool.

And I think you guys were doing Pat Quinn for treasure and some state attorney races.

And you know, we went bowling and I was in the, you know, the parade for St. Pat these days.

And so, you know, this is kind of full circle for me. And so I, you know, one of always not only appreciate your friendship, but your mentorship.

And you were a big part of my career. So this is, this is a big deal going from senior in college to where we are today.

Yeah.

You've come a long way, my friend, as we kind of knew you, you would.

But let's talk about, I'm sitting here in Michigan.

I'm probably about 15 miles from where you grew up in St. Joseph, Michigan.

Talk about the Ancelonies.

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