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And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN Audio, the Axfiles with your host, David Axelrod.

Sally H. and I first sat down for the Axfiles in 2018 when we explored her extraordinary life and career in the law.

This spring, the former acting attorney general of the United States is a Pritzker Fellow at the University of Chicago Institute of Politics.

And I felt, given all the challenges we've seen in recent years to our democracy, the rule of law, and equal justice, it would be a great time to sit down for another conversation.

We did that yesterday, talked about all of that, and this being mental health awareness month, also our shared very personal commitment to suicide prevention.

And let me just say, if you are listening to this podcast and you are grappling with issues of depression, mental illness, if you're trapped in this long dark tunnel, please reach out for help.

Call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.

Sally H. it is always great to see you, good to see you again. We had a chance to talk a few years ago on my Axfiles TV show.

But it's great to catch up, especially since you are currently serving as a Fellow at the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago, inspiring a whole new generation of young leaders.

So I'm grateful for that, but eager to catch up so much to talk about.

Well, let me tell you that whole new generation of leaders is they're actually the ones who are inspiring me. I am absolutely confident I am getting more out of this than they are.

And I leave every session whether it's one of the seminars or whether it's the office hours, you know, times that I have to speak with them with a real spring in my step and a real hope about the future of our country because of students like them.

And we're in desperate need of that kind of inspiration right now. And I wanted to start there. And maybe you want to talk a little bit about the seminars that you're doing at the Institute.

But I mean, one thing that struck me when we, when I was preparing to sit down with you for the first time is you are really, I mean, you grew up in the law.

Your grandfather was in the law. Your father was in the law. You spent 27 years at the, at the Department of Justice. And I'm wondering what assumptions that you made along the way that have been shaken or tested in the last five years, which have been so tumultuous and so many different ways.

And just, just, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

I don't think I'm the only one who's been shaken. And I'm the last five years.

You know, and having been somebody who really spent my career, my professional career as a public servant at the Department of Justice, I really believe in our democratic institutions.

And regardless of whether the, you know, it's a Republican in the White House or a Democrat, we can debate over those policy issues and we should.

But the institutions that define our democracy are really the most important thing. And, you know, I've never seen an all out assault on institutions.

And certainly in the course of my lifetime, like we saw over the four years of the Trump presidency. And I think what's even more disturbing is seeing the hangover of that now when it comes to truth.

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