And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN Audio, the Ax Files, with

your host, David Axelrod.

Andrew McCabe became what no career FBI agent craves in 2017 as the deputy and then the acting

director of the FBI in the midst of the explosive Russia Pro, which made him a frequent target

of then-President Trump.

I talked to him yesterday about that history, how he experienced it, and the very current

threat of domestic terrorism.

Here's that conversation.

Andrew McCabe, it's really good to see you again.

I have so much I want to ask you about relative to your life and your journey, but I can't,

given the moment we're in, I think I want to start with the threat that we face right

now and that was so manifest in the insurgency we saw, the insurrection at the Capitol.

You spent 10 years on counterterrorism at the FBI.

So you were focused primarily on Islamic terrorism threats from outside?

Yeah, so I came up through the counterterrorism division on the international, the IT side,

which was mostly at that point Islamic extremism, but ultimately I ran the division and so had

DT and IT, all that stuff.

And when you were there, how much of a threat was domestic terrorism and extremism, how

much of a focus was that for the FBI and how has it evolved over the years?

So domestic terrorism or what we refer to as DT has always been a serious threat.

There have been remarkably destructive domestic terrorist attacks like the attack on the

Alfred P. Murafedra building in Oklahoma City is the one that I guess comes to mind most

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