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Okay, Judith, let's just chat today about the stigma surrounding men's mental health

and how difficult they find it to get help, to ask for help, particularly maybe the men that we live with, the generation they come from, because both of us are with men in their 70s.

Yes. Do you think Mike would be open to therapy?

Oh, I'm not sure that he would really. He yeah, he is all of a generation as I suppose

Jeff is where you know that wouldn't be so readily um know, kind of embraced or it may even slightly have been

frowned upon and, you know, we don't need it. There is, I think, I think that Mike is, you know,

he's very sort of robust actually, emotionally, but that doesn't mean to say that he doesn't have

problems. And but no, I don't. I think he would find it tricky.

I know that Jeff would do it if push came to shove and something awful happened and it really affected him deeply.

I know that I could persuade him.

And I think the same of Mike.

I think if it was for the good of the family, he would go.

Yes, I think he could. And I think that family therapy has got so much better. And the girls,

you know, the girls are very up for that, and as indeed I am, very open about the fact that we've had therapy and there have been times when the girls have needed it too.

And I think that the younger generation and probably for our boys in the future, when I say our

boys, our grandchildren, I don't think there'll be the stigma. I don't think there will. I totally

agree with you. I think that, you know, all that is dismantling. And it's just such a relief now

that men are allowed, not just to do it

for the sake of the family, but to do it for their own sakes. Yes, I know. And it must be a very

lonely thing, actually, if you are, you know, if you're in a situation where you have, you're

struggling, and everybody does from time to time, and you don't feel that you can reach out

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