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The Last Invention

EP 3: Playing the Wrong Game

The Last Invention

Longview

Documentary, Society & Culture, Technology

4.81K Ratings

🗓️ 9 October 2025

⏱️ 52 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What if the path to a true thinking machine was found not just in a lab… but in a game? For decades, AI’s greatest triumphs came from games: checkers, chess, Jeopardy. But no matter how many trophies it took from humans, it still couldn’t think. In this episode, we follow the contrarian scientists who refused to give up on a radical idea, one that would ultimately change how machines learn. But their breakthrough came with a cost: incredible performance, at the expense of understanding how it actually works. THIS EPISODE FEATURES: Yoshua Bengio, Liv Boeree, Geoffrey Hinton, Karen Hao, Keach Hagey, Jasmine Sun LINKS: ⁠Karen Hao’s book: Empire of AI Keach Hagey's book: The Optimist Liv Boeree's podcast: Win Win CREDITS: This episode of The Last Invention was reported and produced by Andy Mills, Gregory Warner, Andrew Parsons, Megan Phelps-Roper, Matthew Boll, Seth Temple Andrews, and Ethan Mannello. It is hosted by Gregory Warner Music for this episode was composed by ⁠⁠Scott Devendorf⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Ben Lanz⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Cobey Bienert⁠⁠, and Matthew Boll The Last Invention artwork by ⁠⁠Jacob Boll⁠⁠ To become a Longview subscriber you can visit us ⁠⁠here⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors Ground News and FIRE ⁠⁠GROUND NEWS⁠ :⁠ Go to ⁠⁠groundnews.com/invent⁠⁠ to get 40% off unlimited access to global coverage of the stories shaping our world. ⁠⁠FIRE⁠ ⁠ This is a paid sponsorship link. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, listeners, this is Matt, co-founder here at Longview. And before we get to the show,

0:08.1

I just wanted to share something you may already know, but may not fully appreciate.

0:12.6

Our whole project only exists because of subscribers.

0:17.4

Advertising, of course, helps, but it isn't enough. Because the reporting that defines this work, the kind that takes time and patience and independence, is funded by people who choose to subscribe.

0:28.9

Your support is what allows us to investigate the stories that we're working on right now, reporting on why the economy feels broken and incomprehensible to many of us, reporting on health and longevity,

0:40.3

reporting on the resurgence of anarchy on the left and what far right actually means in this political moment.

0:46.1

And of course, reporting on AI. It's easy to underestimate the value of your small monthly subscription,

0:52.2

but taken together, your subscriptions are the foundation

0:55.0

of everything we do. So if you're already a subscriber, thank you. You are helping make this work real.

1:02.4

If you'd like to become one of the people who sustain this project, you can visit us at longviewinvestigations.com.

1:09.3

And thanks again. Okay, on to the show.

1:15.1

This is the last invention. I'm Gregory Warner.

1:19.1

Kisparov has played Knight B-8 to D-7, which is a move that his arch rival, Anatoly Karpov.

1:26.0

On a spring day in 1997, millions of people around the world, myself included, watched one

1:32.8

of the most unusual chess matches in history.

1:35.8

In one corner, weighing 176 pounds, considered by many the greatest player in the history

1:42.2

of the game.

1:43.0

A battle between the world's reigning champion, Gary Kasparoff.

1:46.5

And in the other corner weighing 1.4 tons, the new and improved RS 6,000 SP supercomputer.

1:53.7

And the IBM supercomputer created to beat him deep blue.

1:59.5

The Battle of Man Against Machine.

2:02.3

First move of this epic sixth game has been played.

...

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