Hello and welcome to the Bikes or Death podcast. My name is Patrick and I'm your host. And this is a show that talks about bikepacking, adventuring, and the cool people who participate. Before we get today's show, just a quick couple notes. First off, in the real world, I'm a real estate agent. I'm currently working in open house and it's very slow. So I decided I would

multitask and record the intro and outro to this episode today. But there is a fire alarm that's

beeping and I've hid myself in a closet and I've closed all the doors to try to make it as quiet as

possible. If the mic picks that up, I'm sorry, I tried,

but we'll get through this together.

Also, I'm fighting a cold, so yeah,

if it sounds like I just woke up, I'm just nasally,

hey, that's way it goes sometimes.

All right, well, continuing on with our bikepacking

summit series. I'm excited today that Joe Cruz is my guest. If you listen to the first two

episodes, his name came up both times. He gave a really profound opening presentation about fear

and how to deal with fear. That was truly powerful, not only because

of the things that he said, but the way that he said them. And he lived, he's lived and experienced

things that has allowed him to shape his understanding and his relationship with fear. And it's, it's just a really, it's an

important message. And it's a different way of looking at fear than maybe what we're used to.

So I'll let him tell you about that, but I'm super excited to have him on. It was a very impromptu

interview.

I actually had just wrapped up with one and there was like a gap.

The last day of the summit I did, I think, five interviews in one day and I pretty much

just sat in a chair and I had them back to back to back.

But there was a little window where I caught Joe and he came and sat down with me and we had a really great conversation.

So anyway, I'm excited for y'all to hear that from the man himself and you'll get a little taste of that presentation.

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