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hi everybody tom woods here it's episode episode46, and I'm very happy to welcome two guests, both of who have been back on before, but Kelly, you had Brandon on your podcast very recently, talk about this exact topic. And I guess I'm just poaching it. I don't know how else to put it.

I'm very interested in this topic, so I'm having both of you on my show.

So Kelly Vlay host, you will remember from not too long ago on the show.

She's editor of Responsible Statecraft, which you can find online, and you will find it very, very useful and interesting indeed. And also Brandon Buck, who is a foreign policy

research fellow at the Cato Institute. When I last had him on, we were talking about his work that was

in his PhD dissertation that will one day come out as a book relating to right-wing critiques of

American foreign policy, which is a very, very interesting thing

because we know that the way that's normally handled

is to say that all the critiques came from the left,

and that just muddies the whole situation

and just confuses things rather than clarifies them.

So these are both people who are just suited perfectly

for the topic for today.

So first of all, welcome to both

of you. What I want to talk about today is the exact topic that you delved into last time the two

of you talked. And that has to do with whether or not we're seeing within the Trump world a move

away from neo-conservatism. Now, Kelly, when you came on, we were talking about it looked like the neocons were kind of

ascendant within the administration.

We talked about Daniel Davis, his appointment being scuttled, and things look pretty grim.

Now all of a sudden, we've got Donald Trump in Saudi Arabia using the word neocons pejoratively.

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