Ep. 223 - Dr. Alexander Shaia "A Holiday Conversation" pt. 2

The Deconstructionists

John Williamson

Religion, Religion & Spirituality

4.4 • 823 Ratings

🗓️ 12 January 2026

⏱️ 34 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Episode Description

In Part Two of our conversation with Alexander Shaia, we move beyond theory and into practice—exploring what spiritual transformation actually looks like in real life.

In Part One, we traced the foundations of Dr. Shaia’s work and why his approach to the Gospels resonates so deeply with people navigating faith, doubt, and deconstruction. In this episode, we go deeper—into lived experience, inner change, and the courage it takes to move forward when certainty falls away.

Dr. Shaia shares how spiritual frameworks are meant to form us, not control us, and why the Christian tradition—at its best—has always been about movement, growth, and becoming. This conversation speaks especially to those who feel stuck between belief and disbelief, longing for a faith that can hold both honesty and hope.

About Our Guest

Alexander Shaia is a theologian, speaker, and author best known for his work on the transformational structure of the Gospels. His book, Heart and Mind, explores the fourfold journey found within the Christian tradition and presents a compelling alternative to rigid, belief-based models of faith.

Dr. Shaia’s work has become especially meaningful for those who are deconstructing inherited belief systems while still seeking depth, wisdom, and spiritual grounding.

Education:

Ph.D., Clinical Psychology, California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, CA, 1991

Graduate Certificate, Pastoral Psychotherapy, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA, 1982

Master of Religious Education, Seattle University, Seattle, WA, 1981

M.A., Counseling Education, University of Alabama in Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, 1976

B.A., Cultural Anthropology, University of Notre Dame du lac, Notre Dame, IN, 1974

Jungian and Sandplay Studies, 1973 - Current; month intensive with Dora M. Kalff – Jungian analyst & originator of Sandplay, Zollikon, Switzerland, July/August 1989

Psychosynthesis Certificate, Psychosynthesis Training Institute, San Francisco, CA, Two year training, 1986-1988

Website: www.quadratos.org

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/quadratos/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Quadratos1/featured

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderJohnShaia/

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the deconstructionist podcast. I'm your host, John Williamson, and part two of this conversation took a little longer than we plan to make its way to you. We've been in the
0:21.3	middle of renovating our recording studio and office, and like most renovation projects, it came
0:26.4	with a few unexpected setbacks. But the good news is it's finally coming together, and we're
0:32.0	really grateful to be back in this space and able to finish what we started. One quick note
0:36.7	before we dive in, if you want to
0:38.5	help support the show and go deeper with the kinds of conversations we're having here, we've
0:43.3	just relaunched our Patreon. It's a brand new site, brand new link, and we've brought back the
0:48.8	book of the month club, and for anyone supporting the show at $5 or more per month, less than the price of most Starbucks drinks, we're going, we're also going to share educational resources. We've already got one up there, and it also comes with study guides that you can use on your own or with a group. You can find all of that at the brand new Patreon under the new link, and it genuinely helps keep this work going.
1:13.8	In part one of my conversation with Dr. Alexander Shio, we explored the foundations of his work
1:18.8	and why it resonates so deeply with people who are wrestling with faith, doubt, and meeting.
1:23.8	In this next part, we go deeper into that practice, transformation, and what it actually looks like to live these ideas in the real world.
1:31.3	So thanks for being here. Let's jump back into the conversation.
1:35.0	We'll take a few weeks off, as we normally do at the very, very beginning of the year in January.
1:40.4	With brand new episodes in February, we are definitely recording many, many interviews as we speak.
1:47.7	We've already got a few in the can, including one that I think will be very, very timely.
1:52.9	That'll be the first one coming up.
1:54.5	I don't want to say too much, but it was a very fascinating and very unique type of interview that I did a few weeks back.
2:03.1	So that is coming the very beginning of February.
2:05.9	And again, we'll be off the next few weeks.
2:08.6	Until then, but until then, enjoy part two with Alexander Freakin Shia.
2:15.5	I see it shining so bright. Alexander freaking Shia. Yeah, it's that's so it reminds me of, I heard once, and I, I don't recall who, who said it, but stuck with me this idea that, you know, why did, why did Jesus speak in parables?
2:33.7	And it's because he's trying to change hearts, not change minds. And, um, that, you know, why did Jesus speak in parables?
	...

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