Oh, church, when did we lose our way?

Welcome to the Deconstructionist podcast.

I'm your host, John Williamson, and welcome to part two of my one of my two Christmas

surprises this year, holiday surprises, with our longtime friend of the show, Peter Rollins.

And if you caught part one, you already know how incredible this conversation has been.

Pete has this unique ability to take ideas we think we understand, flip them inside out, and somehow make them feel both unsettling and

strangely comforting at the same time. It's pretty classic Pete. Today's episode picks up right

where we left off, giving even deeper, giving, diving. I think giving is in my brain because

it's the holidays, diving even deeper into the ideas that have shaped his work and so

many of our listeners over the years. So if part one really stretched to you, part two is going

to pull those threads even further. We get into identity, community, desire, belief, and what it

actually means to be transformed. It's rich, it's challenging, and honestly, it's just really fun.

So if you haven't heard part one yet, hit pause and go back.

I promise it'll make today's episode even better.

But if you're all caught up, then let's jump straight in.

Here's part two of my conversation with the brilliant and endlessly fascinating Peter Rollins.

Tell me what made of things.

One of the things I think is so cool about your work and something that we've tried to do

on the podcast as well as, and I think you've mentioned it in your work as well as,

in fact, I think you mentioned it very recently, the fact that

although we use sort of the language of Christianity, because that's what is familiar to us and

sort of how we were raised, we try to extend our work beyond just Christianity. And certainly,

...