And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN, the Axviles, with your

host, David Axelrod.

The really interesting thing about James A. Baker III is that there are really two stories.

One is his history as a public official, as a very consequential secretary of state, under

George H. W. Bush during the period of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, as the Treasury

secretary, under Ronald Reagan, who led the last genuine tax reform that we've seen in

1986.

And as Reagan's first chief of staff during his very eventful first term.

But then there's the other Jim Baker, who was probably as hard-nosed and canny a political

operative, as we've seen on the national scene, certainly of his generation.

He led five presidential races, and famously represented George W. Bush in the recount

in Florida in 2000 that resulted in Bush's election as president.

So much to talk about, and I sat down with Jim Baker the other day from my Axviles TV

show on CNN.

Here is an expanded version of that conversation.

Secretary Baker, we're here in your office at the Baker Institute, at Rice University,

wonderful, wonderful institution you started here.

It is good to be with you.

You know, we work different sides of the political tracks.

We work for different presidents.

But man, what a record.

You had five presidential campaigns.

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