Hi, this is Josh Marshall, and this is the Josh Marshall Podcast.

We are, what, 12, 13, 14 hours after the first presidential debate of the 2020 campaign and it

was pretty wild I don't think there's any other way to put it and I think it's one of

those things that I think people are realizing more how wild it was as time has progressed because it was real wild and I think it's

one of these things where at first and this is kind of in some ways the point,

there's a part of point about this, I'll get to in a moment.

It's sort of the point with how Trump operates.

He's not just being not just being over the top. Part of his

stick is to be so over the top that you don't know quite how to react, like that you're kind of

knocked back on your heels, not a couple years ago, actually way back in 2015, so five years years ago right when Trump was starting out in in in the

2016 campaign

Reader emailed me who's sort of a player in the New York City real estate world like not one of the

moguls but like a lieutenant of one of the moguls and it was sort of

describing like what's Trump's deal right how's he operate what operate? What's his stick? And he described a situation, and this was kind of a hypothetical, but I think it was like a melding of actual real situations.

Trump does a deal with another, you know,

another real estate mogul, and he doesn't pay.

Other real estate mogul waits.

Finally, let's grab lunch and says,

you haven't paid me.

Can we settle up?

And Trump doesn't say, oh, hey, you know, oversight. I'm a little behind, you know, he goes over the top.

I owe you money, you owe me money, I'm going to sue you and, you know, a full nuclear response.

...