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You're very used to a type of politics because you've been a minister and so forth.

And your experience shows that.

You are being rude.

And that's fairly typical, actually, of the way that the pro-Europeans react.

Welcome to EU Confidential, the number one European politics podcast.

I'm Andrew Gray, Politico's EU editor, and you just heard a short clip of a feisty discussion you'll hear shortly,

...