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go to amazon.com.ukau.U.K. slash prime. Welcome to the Codenuby podcast, where we talk to people on their coding journey in the

hopes of helping you on yours. I'm your host, Aran, and before we kick off the show, I want to tell

you about our incredible sponsors. Today, we are continuing our interview with programmer,

diversity advocate, and consultant, author and creator creator of AlterConf, Ash Dreden.

Here's part two of that interview.

You mentioned a little bit earlier.

I love the story a lot when you said, you know, I'm not an expert and someone overheard you and said, yes, you are.

What do you think that person saw or knew or heard about you that made it so obvious that you're an expert?

Well, I think generally, like, the way that we prescribe the label of expert is based on visibility. You know, I can see this person.

Yes. Yes.

So and I think that that kind of goes back to the like, well, the same, this person is

...