This is Trend Following Radio, where great thinking comes alive.

Nobel Prize winners, legendary traders, bestselling authors, and the pros that know what drive us irrational human beings.

I am your host, Michael Covel, not filtered, raw, honest.

That's my passion.

My guest today comes recommended by a prior guest, Henry G. He recommended the good professor,

Nicola Clayton, Nikki Clayton. She's a British psychologist. She is a professor of comparative

cognition at the University of Cambridge. Let me tell you right now, check her work out if you're a

curious individual. Her specialty has been

birds, intelligence in birds, intelligence specifically in corvids or, as you might know,

crows. And then taking it a step further, how this contrast with early childhood development of us homo sapiens

before we can speak.

I joke with her at the beginning about how do you give people the elevator pitch about your

career and what you do quickly?

She got a laugh out of that.

You'll hear her answer for that to my elevator question, which is quite funny because I did not expect where she was going to go with that.

I am so lucky to do this podcast, so lucky to talk to literally world-class scientist.

And Nicola Clayton is one of those who have had the chance to find insights that have changed

the course of history. So cool. I feel like I'm in school forever, but a good kind of school,

like that school that kind of wakes you up, keeps you energized. Without any further delay,

let's jump right into my conversation with Nicola Clayton and gain a little bit of insights into the intelligence of crows.

Let's imagine you're on an elevator, and this is kind of the origins type question, the origin story.

And people start saying, well, what do you do?

...