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The walled city was like heaven with the pearly gates, only they were much more golden then.

And the angels were above that, and they were dancing, and they were glittering gold.

And then it was shift and morphed to the mountains.

And the mountains even were, like, even more beautiful than any mountain range that I've ever seen anywhere.

That's Pam Farrell sharing a bit of her her incredible out-of-this-world experience

on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. She joins us along with John Burke. I'm John Fuller,

and thank you for joining us. John, I'm really excited about the program we're about to record,

and I think people are going to enjoy it. John Burke has been here a few times with such

breathtaking accounts of people who have had near-death experiences and really a phenomenal way to approach those things, to categorize them.

We'll hear more from him in a moment. But I've just always been taken by that. His wonderful book, Imagine Heaven, made a big difference

in Gene and I's life. I mean, we just were captivated by it. And we also learned one of

our popular guests and good friend, Pam Farrell, had an experience herself. And we know

that we had to bring John and Pam together and kind of dialogue about that experience and

get John's expertise on what happened. I'm so excited to dig into this story and it's just again

one example of thousands, literally hundreds of thousands of examples of where people have

touched that perimeter of heaven and been able to come back and then explain it.

...