Hey, it's Micah. If you've been enjoying the Divided Dial series as much as we have,

come join us in New York on June 11th for a very cool, very low-key live show that I'll be doing

with Katie Thornton. We'll hear about the crazy lengths Katie went to to bring these stories to

life. And we'll talk about what our role is in keeping the public airwaves

public. The event is on June 11th in New York. You can find more information at WNYC.org

slash events and in the show notes for today's podcast. Come and nerd out with us on all things radio.

It's going to be really fun. Hey, you're listening to the On the Media Midweek podcast. I'm Michael O'Niger.

This past weekend, I went to Seattle to sit down with an all-time favorite Oatim guest,

tech activist and writer Corey Docterow. We recorded the following conversation in front of a live audience at the Cascade PBS

Ideas Festival.

The topic and shittification.

Corey's theory of how everything on the internet got worse.

You may remember, we first discussed this idea on the show a couple years ago, and this

was an opportunity to talk about what inshidification looks like right now, the latest attempts by tech companies to take advantage of users and workers, and the surge of lawsuits attempting to hold these companies to account.

Here's that interview in Seattle.

Corey, thanks for being here. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. Thanks everyone for coming.

You coined the phrase in shittification to describe a creeping phenomenon you noticed everywhere.

Once user-friendly tech platforms were becoming worse, shittier.

Let's use Amazon as an example.

And the irony is not lost on me that we're speaking on stage at the Amazon Meeting Center.

But what was Amazon like in the early days when, in your view, it worked better for the people who used it?

Well, the thing to understand is that incitification is a modification of this idea that if you're not

...